GTP vs firebird formula
03-23-2006, 06:36 PM
#23
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http://videos.streetfire.net/video/D...00C7447A43.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/D...0FCD8910F0.htm
Both those are vids of my Formula vs a 01 GTP with intake,exhaust,pullies, ported blower and ported and polished manifolds.
I pulled him, but considering what I've done to my car, I can see how one could easily hang or pull on a stock LT1.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/D...0FCD8910F0.htm
Both those are vids of my Formula vs a 01 GTP with intake,exhaust,pullies, ported blower and ported and polished manifolds.
I pulled him, but considering what I've done to my car, I can see how one could easily hang or pull on a stock LT1.
03-24-2006, 05:48 AM
#24
Originally Posted by 89tang
A stock GTP, most will run mid 14's. Mine did and with those few mods i ran 13.98 with a crappy 2.1 60" time. Some have even gotten to low 14's stock with a launch from what i have read.
And yeah i have first hand experiance with the crappy trans in those things lol, after my last bout of mods i demodded cause the tranny started slipping AGAIN after i had just had it rebuilt about 1 1/2 ago.
And yeah i have first hand experiance with the crappy trans in those things lol, after my last bout of mods i demodded cause the tranny started slipping AGAIN after i had just had it rebuilt about 1 1/2 ago.
My friend has one. A 97 only runs low 15s stock. It hits high 14s modified. The newer models ran high 14s stock. Those motors are good for 200k if you do the maintence regularly. A great site for parts: www.3800performance.com They have a turbo replacement option.
03-24-2006, 05:55 AM
#25
Originally Posted by Custom4204
Most GTPs weigh 3400-3500 including sedans. My coupe weighed 3400 even with a little under half of a tank of gas.
03-24-2006, 07:35 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by wickedwarlock
Yes, I said that. If it was modified. You didn't read either my last post. I was typing to ask if it was modified when he was typing it was.
My friend has one. A 97 only runs low 15s stock. It hits high 14s modified. The newer models ran high 14s stock. Those motors are good for 200k if you do the maintence regularly. A great site for parts: www.3800performance.com They have a turbo replacement option.
My friend has one. A 97 only runs low 15s stock. It hits high 14s modified. The newer models ran high 14s stock. Those motors are good for 200k if you do the maintence regularly. A great site for parts: www.3800performance.com They have a turbo replacement option.
03-24-2006, 07:42 AM
#27
Originally Posted by 89tang
No i read every post, i was correcting your low 15 sec. time's you said. I've read the 97-98's are faster then the later years cause of PCM programming and such, although i have seen the 97-98's run slower. It's hard to say really, i'm sure there are quite a few 15 sec. stock GTP's.
03-24-2006, 07:48 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by wickedwarlock
It's an average. Not a factory freak. Like I said, my buddies ran 15.2. Bone stock down to the filter. The air doesn't get any better than the area I live in.
03-24-2006, 07:56 AM
#29
Originally Posted by 89tang
That's cool kinda a crappy time but that's based off mine running high 14's stock and i thought that was crappy times for me. But hell couldn't beat spending 1000 bucks and going down more then a second in 1/4 time, i still wish GM woulda built the damn tranny alittle better.
03-24-2006, 08:09 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by wickedwarlock
Affirmative, a very good engine to modify. The 3.8L is a work horse. Extremely durable and will take a beating. Those who's broke, such a rare thing. I just wish they made it rwd or awd. Reguardless, extremely easy to modify as you have said. For a few grand, you can run 11s with no problems. Oh make sure you do add a transcooler. One of the best things to do first.
that's prolly the reason it's slipping now after it was rebuilt cause then i added all the mods. The new wipple kits look pretty awesome make some crazy amounts of torque on those motors the turbo's are impressive too, to bad i don't have 3k to toss at it at the moment. But since i modded the TA and i have my stang i took all the mods off and made the GTP was it was intended for a DD. Plus the alky was getting to be a pain to tune everytime i went to the track and the tranny issues. But damn would it scoot, and the look on ppl's faces when i'd light the tires up about 35mph lol.As for the RWD or AWD yeah that woulda been awesome, there was someone on clubgp converting to RWD and putting a GN motor in it. There's was also a guy fabbing up an LS1 to dump in his but i believe he was keeping the FWD for some reason.
03-24-2006, 11:29 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by TryingT/A
why modify a gtp when your wife will smash it hasn't happened to me but i had a 99 gtp and got rid of it before it bit the dust like so many others on the road. A 4000 lb sedan with front wheel drive is nothing to be racing in. There something about the grand prix that curses them to crash. my front wheels wouldn't stay straight if i punched the gas. I've seen some heavily modified gtps: they amount to a stock ls1. The gtp was a good grocery getter and had some kick, but the mpg were worse that my caddilac sts and the engine's good till 100k. My friends stock engine blew at 102k.
oh yeah, a pulley and intake barely give the gtps a nudge from stock
03-24-2006, 12:18 PM
#33
Originally Posted by Custom4204
Transcoolers are completely unnecessary for GPs.
03-24-2006, 12:43 PM
#34
Originally Posted by wickedwarlock
If you have lots of power. It's going to get hot. Tell that to the 3800performance.com people. Overeatting is the first thing that will kill the transmission.
Directly from ZZPerformance.com, by far the most popular vendor in the GP community:
The idea of a tranny cooler is a good one. Keep the transmission running cooler and it will last longer. Fluid stays cleaner and parts last longer. Those are theories. The problem is that Grand Prix don't have a problem with transmission temperatures. A tranny cooler might be a great idea on some cars but the Grand Prix is not one of them. Little known to most is that the GP PCM monitors transmission temps and if the tranny temps get too high the PCM will set a check engine light and possibly take precautions to limit abuse.
Here is a quote from INTENSE racing (they build performance transmissions for GPs) "Should I run a tranny cooler?
Only if you're planning to pull a trailer through the mountains. Otherwise, we recommend against it on vehicles with the 3800 FWD/4T65E drivetrain.
We have dissected more of these trannies than anyone else in the performance after-market, and we have yet to see a single heat-related failure. Hard parts break in these trannies, and these failures will not be prevented by a tranny cooler."
We have also done dozens of transmissions here at ZZP and we know from opening them up that a tranny cooler is not helping things. We've seen tranny's break with 50 miles on them and others with 125k on them. Problems have NEVER been related to fluid temperatures or fluid break down.
At the point where we can't convince our customers to take off their trans coolers or not to buy one we often hear the response "well, it can't hurt" or "I'll just play it safe" Wrong! Transmission coolers have many down sides. Going back to the opening of this article we broke down all the reasons not to buy unneeded mods but the tranny cooler is especially dangerous and here's why:
We have had to rebuilt more than one tranny due to a failure of a tranny cooler. When your cooler leaks it can cause very serious problems. Below is a pic from a car in Grand Rapids where a severed line left this owner in the cold.
Here is a quote from a member of the RegalGS forum:
"I installed the GM cooler 10 plus thousand miles ago along with the Thrasher shift kit. (second setting) I'm a bit "old school" when it comes to these things. I figured if the cooler is on the Police Impalas, it would work with the GS trans nicely. Further, I do have a hitch on the car and haul a small trailer on occasion. For me, I feel more comfortable in using a cooler.
However, during the installation, I double clamped the lines and triple-checked for leaks. There were no leaks and the installation worked great for a while...until...on a WOT jaunt up a back road on my way to an appointment, I noticed a bunch of smoke behind the car. I stopped and looked under the car and noticed fluid pouring out of the front of the car. I thought it was antifreeze and traveled another two blocks to the appointment where I finally opened the hood. FIRE! I carry a fire extinguisher in the trunk and the fire was put out quickly. There was no damage from it too, thank god!
It turns out, one of the "double clamped" lines blew of the steel line and sprayed trans fluid all over the exhaust manifold. Fortunately, I was two blocks from the dealer. Still, I had it towed, I didn't want to risk more fire and a bad trans. The dealer replaced the lines and flared the ends so the re-clamped rubber lines wouldn't come off again. Just a little story of my experience."
With nothing to gain and a lot to lose, you can see why we are so strongly opposed to tranny coolers. Even if the cooler doesn't fail you are adding weight to the car, costing yourself money and blocking some of the airflow to the main radiator which in turn makes the car run hotter costing your HP. If you have a car in very hot climates or car with a turbo kit adding more heat we suggest our oversized radiator to properly take care of the heat issue.
03-26-2006, 03:29 PM
#35
Originally Posted by Custom4204
Overeatting and adding a lot of weight to the car might, but overheating is the least of your worries.
Directly from ZZPerformance.com, by far the most popular vendor in the GP community:
The idea of a tranny cooler is a good one. Keep the transmission running cooler and it will last longer. Fluid stays cleaner and parts last longer. Those are theories. The problem is that Grand Prix don't have a problem with transmission temperatures. A tranny cooler might be a great idea on some cars but the Grand Prix is not one of them. Little known to most is that the GP PCM monitors transmission temps and if the tranny temps get too high the PCM will set a check engine light and possibly take precautions to limit abuse.
Here is a quote from INTENSE racing (they build performance transmissions for GPs) "Should I run a tranny cooler?
Only if you're planning to pull a trailer through the mountains. Otherwise, we recommend against it on vehicles with the 3800 FWD/4T65E drivetrain.
We have dissected more of these trannies than anyone else in the performance after-market, and we have yet to see a single heat-related failure. Hard parts break in these trannies, and these failures will not be prevented by a tranny cooler."
We have also done dozens of transmissions here at ZZP and we know from opening them up that a tranny cooler is not helping things. We've seen tranny's break with 50 miles on them and others with 125k on them. Problems have NEVER been related to fluid temperatures or fluid break down.
At the point where we can't convince our customers to take off their trans coolers or not to buy one we often hear the response "well, it can't hurt" or "I'll just play it safe" Wrong! Transmission coolers have many down sides. Going back to the opening of this article we broke down all the reasons not to buy unneeded mods but the tranny cooler is especially dangerous and here's why:
We have had to rebuilt more than one tranny due to a failure of a tranny cooler. When your cooler leaks it can cause very serious problems. Below is a pic from a car in Grand Rapids where a severed line left this owner in the cold.
Here is a quote from a member of the RegalGS forum:
"I installed the GM cooler 10 plus thousand miles ago along with the Thrasher shift kit. (second setting) I'm a bit "old school" when it comes to these things. I figured if the cooler is on the Police Impalas, it would work with the GS trans nicely. Further, I do have a hitch on the car and haul a small trailer on occasion. For me, I feel more comfortable in using a cooler.
However, during the installation, I double clamped the lines and triple-checked for leaks. There were no leaks and the installation worked great for a while...until...on a WOT jaunt up a back road on my way to an appointment, I noticed a bunch of smoke behind the car. I stopped and looked under the car and noticed fluid pouring out of the front of the car. I thought it was antifreeze and traveled another two blocks to the appointment where I finally opened the hood. FIRE! I carry a fire extinguisher in the trunk and the fire was put out quickly. There was no damage from it too, thank god!
It turns out, one of the "double clamped" lines blew of the steel line and sprayed trans fluid all over the exhaust manifold. Fortunately, I was two blocks from the dealer. Still, I had it towed, I didn't want to risk more fire and a bad trans. The dealer replaced the lines and flared the ends so the re-clamped rubber lines wouldn't come off again. Just a little story of my experience."
With nothing to gain and a lot to lose, you can see why we are so strongly opposed to tranny coolers. Even if the cooler doesn't fail you are adding weight to the car, costing yourself money and blocking some of the airflow to the main radiator which in turn makes the car run hotter costing your HP. If you have a car in very hot climates or car with a turbo kit adding more heat we suggest our oversized radiator to properly take care of the heat issue.
Directly from ZZPerformance.com, by far the most popular vendor in the GP community:
The idea of a tranny cooler is a good one. Keep the transmission running cooler and it will last longer. Fluid stays cleaner and parts last longer. Those are theories. The problem is that Grand Prix don't have a problem with transmission temperatures. A tranny cooler might be a great idea on some cars but the Grand Prix is not one of them. Little known to most is that the GP PCM monitors transmission temps and if the tranny temps get too high the PCM will set a check engine light and possibly take precautions to limit abuse.
Here is a quote from INTENSE racing (they build performance transmissions for GPs) "Should I run a tranny cooler?
Only if you're planning to pull a trailer through the mountains. Otherwise, we recommend against it on vehicles with the 3800 FWD/4T65E drivetrain.
We have dissected more of these trannies than anyone else in the performance after-market, and we have yet to see a single heat-related failure. Hard parts break in these trannies, and these failures will not be prevented by a tranny cooler."
We have also done dozens of transmissions here at ZZP and we know from opening them up that a tranny cooler is not helping things. We've seen tranny's break with 50 miles on them and others with 125k on them. Problems have NEVER been related to fluid temperatures or fluid break down.
At the point where we can't convince our customers to take off their trans coolers or not to buy one we often hear the response "well, it can't hurt" or "I'll just play it safe" Wrong! Transmission coolers have many down sides. Going back to the opening of this article we broke down all the reasons not to buy unneeded mods but the tranny cooler is especially dangerous and here's why:
We have had to rebuilt more than one tranny due to a failure of a tranny cooler. When your cooler leaks it can cause very serious problems. Below is a pic from a car in Grand Rapids where a severed line left this owner in the cold.
Here is a quote from a member of the RegalGS forum:
"I installed the GM cooler 10 plus thousand miles ago along with the Thrasher shift kit. (second setting) I'm a bit "old school" when it comes to these things. I figured if the cooler is on the Police Impalas, it would work with the GS trans nicely. Further, I do have a hitch on the car and haul a small trailer on occasion. For me, I feel more comfortable in using a cooler.
However, during the installation, I double clamped the lines and triple-checked for leaks. There were no leaks and the installation worked great for a while...until...on a WOT jaunt up a back road on my way to an appointment, I noticed a bunch of smoke behind the car. I stopped and looked under the car and noticed fluid pouring out of the front of the car. I thought it was antifreeze and traveled another two blocks to the appointment where I finally opened the hood. FIRE! I carry a fire extinguisher in the trunk and the fire was put out quickly. There was no damage from it too, thank god!
It turns out, one of the "double clamped" lines blew of the steel line and sprayed trans fluid all over the exhaust manifold. Fortunately, I was two blocks from the dealer. Still, I had it towed, I didn't want to risk more fire and a bad trans. The dealer replaced the lines and flared the ends so the re-clamped rubber lines wouldn't come off again. Just a little story of my experience."
With nothing to gain and a lot to lose, you can see why we are so strongly opposed to tranny coolers. Even if the cooler doesn't fail you are adding weight to the car, costing yourself money and blocking some of the airflow to the main radiator which in turn makes the car run hotter costing your HP. If you have a car in very hot climates or car with a turbo kit adding more heat we suggest our oversized radiator to properly take care of the heat issue.
