Unless your going to a built 4G64, your going to run into a lot higher of a compression ratio which = less boost, nitrous, or whatever you want to throw at it. Yes the 4g64 is the wave of the future with it allowing much larger displacement, but right now the 6 bolt is still the king.

 

I am definitely in the minority of DSMers when it comes to my opinion on this:

I think that DSMs are at an age now that they have been beaten on a lot, and much like the average 5.0, they are great project cars.

IMHO I was one of the last people to get into DSMs at a point where you could have a great fun DD with a few minor mods. If I do another DSM, it will be a ground up project.

In a way, my Laser already is a ground up project. I have a complete engine almost done in my garage. After that is a trans, and then some nice suspension peices. About 10K into it when Im done as near as I can tell. Thats pretty cheap overall consdiering I got it for 3K. 13K-14K. For the kind of fun Im having its not bad at all. I laugh at what my non-car freinds spend on their vehicles just to have stock cars and a monthly payment.

But from a DD POV, your buring cash on niggling little maitenance issues that you simply bypass by making it a project car. As a project car, you just catch it all before it becomes a problem. As a DD, it all catches you LOL.

So yeah, great bang for the buck. Keep in mind I have one of the most expensive build for what I am doing. I could have bought a stock re-built engine and saved thousands. I could have used the engine in the car as opposed to building a complete one outside it and saved even more.

But for a DD, IMHO, not so good.

And on a side note, people have put down over 500WHP on stock 7 bolts. That means for your average 400WHP car, a 7 bolt is fine. And I would not go making fun of Evo IV guys and thier 7 boltds either.

1G 7 bolts almost never crank walk either. My stocker engine has been mercilesly hammered on for years. 80K miles just sice I bought it. I bought it at 80K LOL. Those 95 crank walk, and that sucks. 1Gs almost never do.

 

I dont know of anyone who doesnt run Wiseco or equivalent pistons in their 2.4 build. They are available from like 7.5:1 to 9:1 for $350-$400.

And the G4CS is the wave of the future.

 

I'd have to be a special breed of idiot to put a T4 turbo on a stock bottom end 4g64.



And youre right, 6 bolts havent died out. They will tho. A number of parts for 1gs are no longer being made. Its just a question of time before the engine is dropped.

And running high compression is DEFINITELY possible with a 4g64 and high boost. I have no idea where this myth came from. Just learn how to tune.

 

That is what mine is a G4CS but they will get hard to find being found in like 89 to 91 hynundai sonatas where I got mine from. I do agree dont think the 7 bolt 4g64 have crankwalk issues like the standard 95 to 99 7 bolt 4g63.

I have wiseco pistons and running around 8.7 to 1.
Of course you don't go putting 75 shots on top of bigger turbos and cams and all that with stock bottom. But a 100 shot on top of stock turbo would be pretty safe if wet shot .The stock 2.0 have gone 500 engine hp repeatedly. 6 and 7 .I chose to forge my stuff but hey I want it to be as near bulletproof as I can make it.
Just the way I am.
Of course a 2.4 is better than a 2.0 especially on the street. More torque,much quicker spool of the big turbo. Make same power as a 2.0 at lower rpm.Lower rpm makes it easier to shift,etc.
Can't see any downsides besides a bit more cost.My dsm have been fairly reliable,not quite as good as my f bodies.
Some is neglect and some is just kids owning them first. A bit of both.
Cars break and you have to be prepared for that. Some is stupid mechanics also you have to set things pretty close on the dsms on things like timing belt,etc.
It can be a pretty unforgiving car if you dont' do stuff to spec and stuff.

 

I agree with you about most of what you said. It does take an idiot to put a t4 turbo on a stock bottom end of any 4 cyl engine.

What I was saying is that with a stock 4g64 shortblock you will automatically run higher compression which = less boost, faster spool.

The beauty of the six bolt short block is that it can be dont affordably, you don't need to build it. This is what many people who have 7 bolt 4g63s who have had crank walk or want to avoid it are doing. Not everyone wants a built bottom end car, with cams, ported heads, and a big turbo that runs on race gas. Some people just want a reliable bolt on car they can dd and still show people at the track or on the street who's the boss. This is what I planned on doing, but with all the other problems my car had it wouldn't be worth the cost for me and it was better to sell it as is.

 

A 100 shot on a stock turbo would put one hell of a strain on the turbo. I'm not saying it hasn't been done, nor is it ineffective, but it's kind of on the edge. That would be spinning the turbo way past it's efficiency range and you'd have to watch the boost really carefully. Fuel cut + lean spike = boom.

 

You do know that building a 4g64 is the same cost as a 6 bolt 4g63, right? And that you dont have to convert anything to install it?

Its like telling me that hacking my wiring harness and buy a bunch of extra parts is better than just bolting in a bigger displacement motor. OH wait, thats exactly what youre telling me.

 

First of all, I dont know were you get off insalting me like that if you see look in my sig it clearly states that I own a DSM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im currently shooting for one of the fastest EVO3 16G time or close to that, so relax.


And did you read my mod list? I really dont care to hear what you have to say because there are other DSM guys on this forum that chim in that have alot of knowledge.

 

Clip the exhaust wheel to deal with the extra exhaust energy, and feul cut shouldnt be a problem on a tuned car with a feul system and running a decent engine managment......Im also setting my car up for spray.


100 shot isnt a problem with a stock bottum end, my freind was spraying a his car with a 125 shot on a 18G at 18psi the car moved and it had all supporting mods etc

 

What was this thread about again?

 

Who knows.

 

Here we go with the extreme's being compared to the mainstream. All those cars are far from what Joe Schmoe would get out of them. A few DSM have gone mid 11's on the stock turbo and only a few hundred dollars in mods. Is that the benchmark that some to shoot for, Im sure, but is it the norm and done frequently, not at all. If it is that easy to go that fast then more people would do it and an article in the magazien wouldn't hold the prestige it does now.

As far as my motor the only part in my motor that is not a stock factory Mitsu part are the head studs. Other then that I got everything right from the Mitsu dealer down the street. I also have to laugh at your logic. Yes, I have a Shep trans, larger turbo, and what not. But inorder to have a car that will take abuse that is the stuff that has to be done. Your logic is the same reason DSM are thought unreliable. People don't want to buy a Shep trans becasue it is "expensive" then they end up blowing up 3 or 4 stock trannies that have who knows how many miles on them. All that money they spent could have been saved on 1 Shep trans that would still be going strong. Like I said the key to having a fast car is parts and driving, the key to having a fast car that is reliable is buying the right parts and driving.

Like most DSM owners you get a car that was beat to death and hung up wet, and hoped it would get you to awesome times with a small investment. Any used car needs to be looked over very well or if it does have flaws plan for those when it is bought. It really isn't that hard to do and that goes for any used car not just DSM's.


As far as using nitrous there are a few guys going super fast with it on very small turbo's. This guy is one of the best known and a local to me.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157957
He has a built 7 bolt, yes the motor you would lead people to believe will suck you into a black hole, and a good 200 shot on the STOCK T25. Now the car is super gutted but the point is the reliabilty of the 7 bolt and how big of a shot the t25 will take. He has many passes on both that motor and stock t25 without a problem.

As far as the whole LS1 VS 4G63 or dsm. Just let it die. They are two different cars that make power two different ways. Everyone is different and there will always be a car out there for every different need someone has.

Yes, I use this screen name on everyboard I am on.

 

Here we go with the extreme's being compared to the mainstream. All those cars are far from what Joe Schmoe would get out of them. A few DSM have gone mid 11's on the stock turbo and only a few hundred dollars in mods. Is that the benchmark that some to shoot for, Im sure, but is it the norm and done frequently, not at all. If it is that easy to go that fast then more people would do it and an article in the magazien wouldn't hold the prestige it does now.\




Thats the problem most DSM peoeple that are the hacks and make our cars look bad are also nut swingers, people try to compare Project Goodwill, and a few 14B guys have gone really fast but comon now not everyone will but for some reason they dont see that.

Focus on REAL WORLD things that work, and real world setups just because shep went high 10s in a 20G years ago doesnt mean your going to, because its not easy at all.
It take alot of time effort and tunning to do somthing with so little, DSMs arent taken care of and are just beat to **** thats why they have such a bad name.....

I hope people know, that over time the syncros wear down and need to be replaced it just happens, now put a bunch of mods on a AWD trans with high miles and its going to blow. People just dont under stand simple things....

 

So did this race ever happen?