Beat a 550 awhp Evo!!
02-13-2007, 01:37 AM
#21
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HMMMMM...
Well i think thats because boosted cars are much differrent than NA cars..
1-2-3 gear he probaly is barely in his boost for a few seconds since he's going through the gears so quickly..
But fourth and ESPECIALY fifth gear he'd be standing in his sweet spots of higher rpm's for quite a while. Fully utilizing the full 550 rwhp for MULTIPLE seconds while in gear. Id imagine that while in 5th gear he'd be between 500 and 550 rwhp for as long as 5 seconds while the rpm's are climbing.
so while he was in 1-2-3 gear you only got slight taste of his full 550 rwhp. He has to switch gears so fast and the rpm's build boost and the significantly drop each time he shifts. only to redline again very quicky.
but 4-5 gear..your getting sustained boost from him in those gears. and 550 is more than 460...
Well i think thats because boosted cars are much differrent than NA cars..
1-2-3 gear he probaly is barely in his boost for a few seconds since he's going through the gears so quickly..
But fourth and ESPECIALY fifth gear he'd be standing in his sweet spots of higher rpm's for quite a while. Fully utilizing the full 550 rwhp for MULTIPLE seconds while in gear. Id imagine that while in 5th gear he'd be between 500 and 550 rwhp for as long as 5 seconds while the rpm's are climbing.
so while he was in 1-2-3 gear you only got slight taste of his full 550 rwhp. He has to switch gears so fast and the rpm's build boost and the significantly drop each time he shifts. only to redline again very quicky.
but 4-5 gear..your getting sustained boost from him in those gears. and 550 is more than 460...
02-13-2007, 01:39 AM
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OH....BTW...Im sure on a stock EVO with 230-260 awhp ( depending on year) that 5th gear is just an overdrive. But with an addittional 300 awhp motivating 5th gear..Well thats just sustained power.
02-13-2007, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Killemall
HMMMMM...
Well i think thats because boosted cars are much differrent than NA cars..
1-2-3 gear he probaly is barely in his boost for a few seconds since he's going through the gears so quickly..
But fourth and ESPECIALY fifth gear he'd be standing in his sweet spots of higher rpm's for quite a while. Fully utilizing the full 550 rwhp for MULTIPLE seconds while in gear. Id imagine that while in 5th gear he'd be between 500 and 550 rwhp for as long as 5 seconds while the rpm's are climbing.
so while he was in 1-2-3 gear you only got slight taste of his full 550 rwhp. He has to switch gears so fast and the rpm's build boost and the significantly drop each time he shifts. only to redline again very quicky.
but 4-5 gear..your getting sustained boost from him in those gears. and 550 is more than 460...
Well i think thats because boosted cars are much differrent than NA cars..
1-2-3 gear he probaly is barely in his boost for a few seconds since he's going through the gears so quickly..
But fourth and ESPECIALY fifth gear he'd be standing in his sweet spots of higher rpm's for quite a while. Fully utilizing the full 550 rwhp for MULTIPLE seconds while in gear. Id imagine that while in 5th gear he'd be between 500 and 550 rwhp for as long as 5 seconds while the rpm's are climbing.
so while he was in 1-2-3 gear you only got slight taste of his full 550 rwhp. He has to switch gears so fast and the rpm's build boost and the significantly drop each time he shifts. only to redline again very quicky.
but 4-5 gear..your getting sustained boost from him in those gears. and 550 is more than 460...
Good post, and I agree. that is my only explanation as well.
How is your Viper doing man? I love the Gen II Vipers..
02-13-2007, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by demon2003
I was there for this race and that Evo was a bad *** car but Fadi beat him hands down both times if the guy with the Evo still has the car we will have to see if we can get them to race again for a better vid. as for gsrhunter read your profile and your car seems awsome but i cant Highly HIGHLY doubt you put even a half car on a Stock C6 Z06 Let alone beat a modded one. JMO
I have a vid of the first race with the C6 Z06 when he was bone stock. I was only making 450whp at the time and my car wasn't running right. I only beat him by a car. We were supposed to race again the following week with the same setup, but he went and had lg headers put on the very next day and made 500whp. So I got a bigger turbo. I'm not a kid who has to come on here and lie. I beat him by 5 cars in the second race. We do this every weekend.
02-13-2007, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by gsrhunter
So far I love these forums. It seems to be about the cars. Also fadi in all the confusion of why you beat a 550whp evo.... I forgot to congratulate you on doing so. GREAT KILL.
I have a vid of the first race with the C6 Z06 when he was bone stock. I was only making 450whp at the time and my car wasn't running right. I only beat him by a car. We were supposed to race again the following week with the same setup, but he went and had lg headers put on the very next day and made 500whp. So I got a bigger turbo. I'm not a kid who has to come on here and lie. I beat him by 5 cars in the second race. We do this every weekend.
I have a vid of the first race with the C6 Z06 when he was bone stock. I was only making 450whp at the time and my car wasn't running right. I only beat him by a car. We were supposed to race again the following week with the same setup, but he went and had lg headers put on the very next day and made 500whp. So I got a bigger turbo. I'm not a kid who has to come on here and lie. I beat him by 5 cars in the second race. We do this every weekend.
02-13-2007, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by demon2003
Well if you have a video of it id love too see it. Me personally find it very very far fetched. Post up your kill video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSLouwvBX9g
02-13-2007, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by gsrhunter
I've seen your car on the supraforums. Runs pretty good, Ill give you props. Is this the same car that ran the GTO and the M6?
02-13-2007, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by NIevo
Well 128mph traps is kinda low for 550whp. Maybe that was on Race Gas or a high reading dyno, or he has a really heavy car. I dont doubt if you pulled at that high a speed, 5th gear would be just about maxed. Unless he has new gears or a built motor for hi rev's these cars are just geared to short.
I agree.
Fadi...your buddy's overestimating his car's power. My car trapped around 126-127mph (close to his) last year and it was no 550awhp. I would say around 475-500awhp which would make sense since he's probably 200lbs heavier and you have better gearing and NA.
Does he have the dyno chart of his 550awhp? I can't view the video.
Nice kill btw.
02-13-2007, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Fadi
I guess overdirve (5th gear) + 550 awhp = still very fast.
Good post, and I agree. that is my only explanation as well.
How is your Viper doing man? I love the Gen II Vipers..
Good post, and I agree. that is my only explanation as well.
How is your Viper doing man? I love the Gen II Vipers..
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/4...cb00333e48.htm
I think we know that a supra and viper share nearly identical final gear ratio, that is why they have extremely nice top ends. I think the supra is 3.18 and the vipers is 3.12. But the difference in the vettes( I think) is the 1.1 in 4th gear opposed to the other two vehicles being 5th. What I am saying is, eventhough you have a lowerdrag coeficiency, your gears play a big role in it also. I cant remember what magazine I read, but the C6 Z06 had the slowest 150-180(200) time out of the supercar test.
You can tell in the video, how the EVO creeps back up on top, despite its lack of aerodynamics. And if you recall on some of the AMS videos, their own cars have kept up and at some times passed cars with similar or more power.
02-13-2007, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Fadi
Great post, bro. I agree with you. But, that still leaves the question:
If the Evo's cd is that bad, why was I able to pull on him while he is in his 3rd and 4th gears (40-125), yet, I was barely able to get away from him while he was in his overdrive (5th) and I was in my "go" gear (4th)?
If what you are saying is true (which it is, and this is why this is confusing, lol) how can he keep up so well at 125+ and do worse from 40-125?
Good discussion fellas...
If the Evo's cd is that bad, why was I able to pull on him while he is in his 3rd and 4th gears (40-125), yet, I was barely able to get away from him while he was in his overdrive (5th) and I was in my "go" gear (4th)?
If what you are saying is true (which it is, and this is why this is confusing, lol) how can he keep up so well at 125+ and do worse from 40-125?
Good discussion fellas...
While I don't know this for fact it's just an idea of what could have happen.
I also agree that if he spend 30k into the motor of that car and only got 550awhp, he was taking for a ride. Last tally I saw for the 900awhp AMS EVO was 40k. 30k and he should be 700+ easy.
02-13-2007, 09:20 AM
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Awesome kill. Shows what happens when they give an LSX a truly long high RPM powerband.
I agree with the comments on gearing. Its can really make things happen in a weird sequence. If anyone remembers BSmonitor's little story in here awhile back, it was very surprising....
The thing is too, at lower speeds the accelerations are much higher no matter what power you're at as long as you're hooking. Throw in more frequent gear chages when you're in your lower gears, and the differentials in speed between the two cars are very very dynamic. Up top things slow down so to speak. So its easy to to be fooled by what you'r eyes are telling you when your watching the road, the tach, and him.
As for aero, its really starts to matter at even 60 IMHO. And its one of those things in nature and physics where its effect is squared. Just as moving half to distance to a jet engine makes it 4 times as loud to your ears, going 120 makes air resistance more or less 4 times as significant as at 60. Evos have a CD of about .36 to the Zs of what, .31 or so? All the ducting and downforce stuff is not going to help that any, despite their benefits for stability.
BUT, thats not the whole story. The real resistance is only partially determined by the CD. Think of a brick. Now think of a large rocket. The rocket is much more "aerodynamic" than the brick, but its going to take less force to overcome wind resistance in the brick because its smaller. I dont know what the frontal area is for each car, but I'm willing to bet that the width of the Vette compensates a little bit for the height of the Evo. So they might be kinda close. So his aerodynamic disadvantage might not be as bad as we think.
Whatever the reasons are, thats freakin awesome Fadi.
I agree with the comments on gearing. Its can really make things happen in a weird sequence. If anyone remembers BSmonitor's little story in here awhile back, it was very surprising....
The thing is too, at lower speeds the accelerations are much higher no matter what power you're at as long as you're hooking. Throw in more frequent gear chages when you're in your lower gears, and the differentials in speed between the two cars are very very dynamic. Up top things slow down so to speak. So its easy to to be fooled by what you'r eyes are telling you when your watching the road, the tach, and him.
As for aero, its really starts to matter at even 60 IMHO. And its one of those things in nature and physics where its effect is squared. Just as moving half to distance to a jet engine makes it 4 times as loud to your ears, going 120 makes air resistance more or less 4 times as significant as at 60. Evos have a CD of about .36 to the Zs of what, .31 or so? All the ducting and downforce stuff is not going to help that any, despite their benefits for stability.
BUT, thats not the whole story. The real resistance is only partially determined by the CD. Think of a brick. Now think of a large rocket. The rocket is much more "aerodynamic" than the brick, but its going to take less force to overcome wind resistance in the brick because its smaller. I dont know what the frontal area is for each car, but I'm willing to bet that the width of the Vette compensates a little bit for the height of the Evo. So they might be kinda close. So his aerodynamic disadvantage might not be as bad as we think.
Whatever the reasons are, thats freakin awesome Fadi.
02-13-2007, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Sparetire
Awesome kill. Shows what happens when they give an LSX a truly long high RPM powerband.
I agree with the comments on gearing. Its can really make things happen in a weird sequence. If anyone remembers BSmonitor's little story in here awhile back, it was very surprising....
The thing is too, at lower speeds the accelerations are much higher no matter what power you're at as long as you're hooking. Throw in more frequent gear chages when you're in your lower gears, and the differentials in speed between the two cars are very very dynamic. Up top things slow down so to speak. So its easy to to be fooled by what you'r eyes are telling you when your watching the road, the tach, and him.
As for aero, its really starts to matter at even 60 IMHO. And its one of those things in nature and physics where its effect is squared. Just as moving half to distance to a jet engine makes it 4 times as loud to your ears, going 120 makes air resistance more or less 4 times as significant as at 60. Evos have a CD of about .36 to the Zs of what, .31 or so? All the ducting and downforce stuff is not going to help that any, despite their benefits for stability.
BUT, thats not the whole story. The real resistance is only partially determined by the CD. Think of a brick. Now think of a large rocket. The rocket is much more "aerodynamic" than the brick, but its going to take less force to overcome wind resistance in the brick because its smaller. I dont know what the frontal area is for each car, but I'm willing to bet that the width of the Vette compensates a little bit for the height of the Evo. So they might be kinda close. So his aerodynamic disadvantage might not be as bad as we think.
Whatever the reasons are, thats freakin awesome Fadi.
I agree with the comments on gearing. Its can really make things happen in a weird sequence. If anyone remembers BSmonitor's little story in here awhile back, it was very surprising....
The thing is too, at lower speeds the accelerations are much higher no matter what power you're at as long as you're hooking. Throw in more frequent gear chages when you're in your lower gears, and the differentials in speed between the two cars are very very dynamic. Up top things slow down so to speak. So its easy to to be fooled by what you'r eyes are telling you when your watching the road, the tach, and him.
As for aero, its really starts to matter at even 60 IMHO. And its one of those things in nature and physics where its effect is squared. Just as moving half to distance to a jet engine makes it 4 times as loud to your ears, going 120 makes air resistance more or less 4 times as significant as at 60. Evos have a CD of about .36 to the Zs of what, .31 or so? All the ducting and downforce stuff is not going to help that any, despite their benefits for stability.
BUT, thats not the whole story. The real resistance is only partially determined by the CD. Think of a brick. Now think of a large rocket. The rocket is much more "aerodynamic" than the brick, but its going to take less force to overcome wind resistance in the brick because its smaller. I dont know what the frontal area is for each car, but I'm willing to bet that the width of the Vette compensates a little bit for the height of the Evo. So they might be kinda close. So his aerodynamic disadvantage might not be as bad as we think.
Whatever the reasons are, thats freakin awesome Fadi.
02-13-2007, 01:10 PM
#37
Originally Posted by 25psi
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/4...cb00333e48.htm
I think we know that a supra and viper share nearly identical final gear ratio, that is why they have extremely nice top ends. I think the supra is 3.18 and the vipers is 3.12. But the difference in the vettes( I think) is the 1.1 in 4th gear opposed to the other two vehicles being 5th. What I am saying is, eventhough you have a lowerdrag coeficiency, your gears play a big role in it also. I cant remember what magazine I read, but the C6 Z06 had the slowest 150-180(200) time out of the supercar test.
You can tell in the video, how the EVO creeps back up on top, despite its lack of aerodynamics. And if you recall on some of the AMS videos, their own cars have kept up and at some times passed cars with similar or more power.
I think we know that a supra and viper share nearly identical final gear ratio, that is why they have extremely nice top ends. I think the supra is 3.18 and the vipers is 3.12. But the difference in the vettes( I think) is the 1.1 in 4th gear opposed to the other two vehicles being 5th. What I am saying is, eventhough you have a lowerdrag coeficiency, your gears play a big role in it also. I cant remember what magazine I read, but the C6 Z06 had the slowest 150-180(200) time out of the supercar test.
You can tell in the video, how the EVO creeps back up on top, despite its lack of aerodynamics. And if you recall on some of the AMS videos, their own cars have kept up and at some times passed cars with similar or more power.
I agree
02-13-2007, 01:11 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by NIevo
Well 128mph traps is kinda low for 550whp. Maybe that was on Race Gas or a high reading dyno, or he has a really heavy car. I dont doubt if you pulled at that high a speed, 5th gear would be just about maxed. Unless he has new gears or a built motor for hi rev's these cars are just geared to short.
Wow!! Sounds like he got ripped off if he's only at 550whp. $30k is alot of mods for these cars, like 9sec territory.
Just admit that the Z06 is the better, faster, lighter car. End of story, no need to try and make up reasons why he lost.