PewterScreaminMach

iTrader: (7)

Since when does 250 lbs not make much of a difference? The accepted theory (tested theory, that is) is that you lose roughly one tenth for every 100 pounds. If that's the case, then that's two to three tenths slower, then figure in the extra horsepower, which puts them pretty close stock for stock. I did say they seem to trap slightly higher, but with the independent rear and extra 250 pounds, give or take stock for stock, they don't get off the line as well. There is no fault in that statement.

ALSO, I don't personally know a ton of GTO owners that do a lot of weight reduction. And whether or not it's easy to do has nothing to do with the stock for stock performance that I specifically mentioned.

By the way, 250 pounds is the rough weight difference of an average fbody and an average C5 Vette, give or take, and that weight difference gets legitimately mentioned all the time, so why is it wrong to mention the same weight difference when comparing stock for stock fbodies and GTOs?

necrocannibal

iTrader: (5)

Never said you said anything about performance just weight. Its not just you it just seems like everytime someone says something about a GTO a statement like, those things are heavy **** pigs, gets thrown in. Even you in your statement said they weigh ALOT. They arent really that heavy. Now SRT8s, those are heavy. Stock for stock a LS2 GTO and a LS1 f body (01-02) should be a drivers race with a small edge to f body from a dig and small edge to GTO from a roll.

BayAreaSS

iTrader: (10)

Its about a 300lb difference between an f-body and GTO and that makes a difference in a race

PewterScreaminMach

iTrader: (7)

You prove my point very well. A driver's race between an Fbody rated at 330hp or less and an LS2 GTO rated at 400hp. If that doesn't scream huge weight advantage for the Fbody, then I don't know what does.

300 pounds is HUGE in the quarter mile. GTOs ARE heavy out of the factory. "Heavy **** pigs" might be a rude and demeaning way of putting it, but it is pretty accurate considering the size of the car.

BlueGoat06

huge advantage for the fbody
is not like every fbody weights 3400lbs, if you think GTO's are Heavy *** pigs, lets wait for the next camaro, i guess you might want to call it a mamouth or something...

we're aware of the difference in weigth, 3725lbs is not much considering the LS2 power ratings unless the goat is racing one of those factory stripped fbodies.

PewterScreaminMach

iTrader: (7)

This has nothing to do with the Camaro that is not even out yet, so don't try to get off topic.

It has to do with a stock 98-02 Fbody versus stock 04-06GTO. To make it a good race from a dig, the GTO needs the extra 70 (or more) fwhp in the 05-06 because of the weight difference, and that is a fact unless you're figuring in a driver mod. GTOs are HEAVY for their size compared to Fbodies. Period.

Example: When I pull my 02 Z28 into the garage next to my dad's 04 GTO and compare the sizes, all I can think about it "holy crap, why the hell is that thing so heavy?" With the 12-bolt, heavy driveshaft and torque arm, my car weighs 3475, and all I removed was the spare tire and jack (30 pounds and I weighed them and the car yesterday at Englishtown).

It has everything to do with the fact that the GTO is a MUCH nicer car, (especially the killer interior, by the way). But that luxury comes at a price, and that price is weight. Why do you think the big name luxury cars (ie Mercedes, etc) all have smaller two door coupes that weigh 4000+ pounds? I'm not saying it's a bad thing if that's what you're looking for, just know that it makes a difference when you're going to race.

BlueGoat06

i'm not trying to get off topic, just trying to give you another example of a heavy car. i'm not saying weigth doesn't matter, cause it does, just not in the context where you guys put the GTO in, at least the LS2 model. if the new camaro gets close to 4000lbs, the LS3 should make up for the difference, as the LS2 does in the GTO, and more than weight, it's the IRS vs the live axel what really makes the difference from a dig between both cars.

BayAreaSS

iTrader: (10)

I know my camaro doesn't weigh 3400lbs. With me in the car i bet its around 3700lbs

BlueGoat06

i had a 99 Z28 M6 a few years ago with all the options, hit the scales at 3510lbs with a full tank of gas. my 03 Mach1 was lighter at 3450 lbs, full tank of gas, full option minus the shaker 1000 stereo system, i haven't weight in the goat, but i've done some weight reduction to this one, you wouldn't believe how heavy are the stock manifolds, stock resonator and mufflers, so you're saving weight adding LT's, x pipe and aftermarket mufflers, i have some other little things out as well

anyways, here is a list of stuff you can take off and save some weight out of this cars

Skid plate: 18 lbs.
(BMR Skid Plate: 5 lbs)

Back seats (both pieces): 45 lbs.

Front Passenger seat (with bracket): 65 lbs.

Fuel Tank Brace: 25 lbs.
Fuel tank brakets/bolts(both): 12lbs(thanks PitchBlackGTO)

V-Brace for towing: 15 lbs.

Strut brace: 3lbs(thanks ls1jeeper)

Spare/jack/everything in trunk: ~50lbs

Front Floor mats: 4lbs total

Rear floor mats: 2.5lbs total

Rear Muffler heat shielding: 5lbs

Stock spoiler: 5lbs

Stock battery: 6 lbs heavier than a red top

Stock airbox/filter: 4.5lbs(thanks chris442)

Stock Exhaust manifolds: 28-31lbs

Stock driveshaft: 27lbs
(trans yoke, 2-piece shaft, rubber donuts, all bolts)

Difftechnics driveshaft: 17lbs

Stock 04 midpipes w/ cats: ??lbs

Stock 05-06 midpipes w/ cats: 50lbs(thanks chris442)

Exhaust after mids until mufflers: 23lbs(thanks ls1jeeper)

Stock 05-06 mufflers: 56lbs(thanks ls1jeeper)

Stock 17" wheels/tires: 52lbs each.

Stock 18" wheel/tires: 54lbs each. (thanks 87LC2)

19x9.5 TSW Thruxtons w/ 265/30's: 50 lbs.

19x8 TSW Thruxtons w/ 235/35's: 48lbs.

19x8 Niche Rhine wheel/tires 235/35: 51lbs

17x8 OZ Super's: 43 lbs.

Headers and catless exhaust - lots of weight saved(~30lbs)

Weight going to LT's is 15lbs saved
Weight going to shorties is 17lbs saved

Cats alone weigh around 15lbs I know since I just shipped them out the other day.

Torkster

Inexperienced drivers gave the goat a bad rep, me including at first. When I first got my 05 goat in March of 05, I was getting whipped by stock f-bodys because I didn’t know the GTO’s characteristics. I came from a f-body and tried to drive the goat like my f-body and it didn’t work out well. Racing from a 35-40 mph roll got me killed because I was in second gear. Plus in the summer the pcm pull timing big time. I trained on country back roads and learned the car limits and got wise about racing in hot weather. After that and when 60 degree weather hit, I raced a c5 vette from a 40 mph roll only this time I choose first to use the goat’s top rev band. I immediately started pulling the vette and by the end of 100 I was 1.5 cars ahead. In stock trim after I learn what the car could do, my goat pulled c5’s, c4’s (a zr1), stock f-bodies, lightly modded f-bodies, stis, wrxs, most rice, ect. in stock trim. Cool weather in the stock goat was a nite and day difference.

wrp

+1 Geared tuned and cammed C5. Of course mine is the slower LS1 GTO.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...39506593&hl=en