01 WS6 vs Modded Mach 1
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Oh, and perhaps mr. cosby maybe your being a smartass. How in the hell is he supposed to know how his car runs better than others, maybe it's one of those super secret invisible superchargers from the factory?
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Originally Posted by git_sum
I have to agree with the factory freak hting i've got a 99 trans-am with nothign more than a cat-back exhaust and i've beat a supercharged 92 5.0, 2 2001 camaro ss, 2 99 z28's, and modded 5.0s. Also ran a 13.30 at 109 with passenger and **** for traction. It was using a gtech pro and i'm not real sure how well they work but they're supposed to be within .01 of a second
We have "supposedly" different heads that were being used after June 03 from the factory on our Mach1's.. These last few units off the line seemed to be muchos "quicker".. These are what we used to call a "factory ringer" or freak i guess but the point is its because of a possible head change during production year not because of an un-explained circumstance?? Most freaks are probably caused by such a change during production, some later discovered, some not ever discovered.. Beating some random bloke on the street surely doesnt mean you have a freak car.. What if i raced some kid playing around with his Daddy's Z06 & i actually beat him with my N/A Mustang?? It was real close & impressive race too, My passenger is all "white" & shaking, Does that mean i have a "Bucking Freak" Mustang?? Certainly Not
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Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
Further, please tell me what it is that makes your car a freak. Did the factory port the heads? Perhaps the factory slid in an ultra-secret cam? Maybe your heads are milled for compression? Perhaps they installed some domed pistons? What is it? What makes your car this "freak" that makes the same power as a 01 LS6?
Wait! Don't tell me.....you don't know? It just "is".
Things that make you go hmmmmmm.
I wish you a pleasant evening.![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
Wait! Don't tell me.....you don't know? It just "is".
Things that make you go hmmmmmm.
I wish you a pleasant evening.
![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
So let me get this straight, you have a freak, but dont believe in freaks? Im not sure why my car is as fast as it is. If you figured out why some ls1's are making more power than ls6's mod for mod, then youve answered the million dollar question that more than a few members of this board have asked. Nothing was touched on the car when the motor was put in. Service dept agreed my first motor was trashed, and ordered a new LS1 long block. It came in and went in the car. Babied it for 500 miles, changed the oil, and the first time i nailed it, it felt wayyy faster than my old engine. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just the facts. Mach1Registry.com proved you cant change a mustang owners mind once they are "sure" of something
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I don't think the 13.3 is very freakish but considering how bad my traction was i think it kinda is. It spun bad, how much this actually adds on to my time i don't know maybe a second maybe a half second, who knows. And as far as the 109 thing goes i'm not real sure how that goes along with the 13.3, i'm kinda new to this whole racing thing.
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Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
Care to see a dyno of my bone stock 99 Cobra dyno that shows it makes 312 RWHP? Do you believe that? If I show you a dyno would you believe that? If I got the dyno operator to come on here and vouch for it, would you believe that? I mean after all, I've gone 115 mph with that HP - surely something isn't right. Know what I mean, Vern?
![Icon Confused](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies2/icon_confused.gif)
To answer your question av8tor, the 99TA you referred to in your above post was considered a freak by the owner more than likely due to the 109 trap. Most 99's were around 105, give or take. No doubt that the new mach 1's are underrated like ls1's
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Originally Posted by git_sum
Oh, and perhaps mr. cosby maybe your being a smartass. How in the hell is he supposed to know how his car runs better than others, maybe it's one of those super secret invisible superchargers from the factory?
![Winky](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_wink.gif)
ROFLOL Venkman, you're a funny dude. I suppose we can continue. Tis good fun, and perhaps we'll all learn something?
Nah. Anyways...
Originally Posted by Venkman
So let me get this straight, you have a freak, but dont believe in freaks?
Originally Posted by Venkman
Im not sure why my car is as fast as it is.
Originally Posted by Venkman
If you figured out why some ls1's are making more power than ls6's mod for mod, then youve answered the million dollar question that more than a few members of this board have asked.
Originally Posted by Venkman
Nothing was touched on the car when the motor was put in. Service dept agreed my first motor was trashed, and ordered a new LS1 long block. It came in and went in the car. Babied it for 500 miles, changed the oil, and the first time i nailed it, it felt wayyy faster than my old engine.
Originally Posted by Venkman
I'm not trying to convince you of anything
Originally Posted by Venkman
just the facts
Originally Posted by Venkman
Mach1Registry.com proved you cant change a mustang owners mind once they are "sure" of something ![The Jester](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_jest.gif)
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Originally Posted by Venkman
The plain and simple fact is one ls1 rolled off the line pushing 300rwhp while the next would dyno 320+.
Pssst....I don't believe GM's quality control was that bad. You can if you wish.
Originally Posted by Venkman
If youre implying i had/have an ls6 when i dynoed 357rwhp, youre very wrong.
Originally Posted by Venkman
It gets harder to measure freaks after theyre modded, so i can only use my lid and exhaust dyno #'s
Originally Posted by Venkman
saying a car traps 121 modded, and is it a freak makes no sense at all.
Car A) runs 121 mph on the stock 3.42 gear with only external bolt-ons.
Car B) runs 114 (or was it 115? Whatever) on the stock 3.42 gears with only a lid and exhaust.
Which one is the proverbial "freak"? There's a lot more to it, of course.
Originally Posted by Venkman
Im in the process of putting my dynograoh on my new server, I'll send you the link when im done, just so you dont think i'm all talk.
Originally Posted by Venkman
It also couldnt hurt to see that dynograph. You should feel lucky to have a high horsepower stock 99 cobra, since ford openly admitted that most 99 cobras wont dyno for **** and were overrated in the horsepower dept. Its also interesting you say that youve gone faster than 115, yet your best mph in your sig is 114
You are correct - 99's were actually recalled due to not making their claimed HP. I didn't dyno mine before the recall, so I cannot provide after results.
My sig contains my best pass. My best ET and my best MPH were not on the same run. I am alll about ET, thus that is what I posted. My best ever MPH is 115.06, but that came on a "slow" 11.62 (1.65 60 ft....that was my shoulda/coulda/woulda 11.5 pass).
Anyways...you're just barking up the wrong tree. One more time....I don't believe in "freaks", and your car does nothing - at all - to change my mind.
Probably ought to call this an evening, and besides, I have to take my eldest (high school freshman - will be driving soon
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Have a good evening.
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PS...In case you didn't know, I'm a HUGE fan of the LS1/LS6, and am quite aware of what they are capable of. I've said many times before that my Cobra would be damn near perfect if it had come from the factory with an LS1 (I'll keep the rest, thanks).
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Originally Posted by git_sum
I don't think the 13.3 is very freakish but considering how bad my traction was i think it kinda is. It spun bad, how much this actually adds on to my time i don't know maybe a second maybe a half second, who knows. And as far as the 109 thing goes i'm not real sure how that goes along with the 13.3, i'm kinda new to this whole racing thing.
![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
I do not know, nor have i ever met Bob personally, but this Bob Cosby guy (posts up above) was at 1 time (& still is im sure) in the mid to low 11 ET's with a Naturally Aspirated Mustang that i believe has about 70 cubic inches less than an LS1 motor.. Aparantly he's got all his "ducks in a row" & when he speaks on other sites people probably pay attention
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Is your Mach1 manual or automatic, and if your gettin getting 12.5's at a 108 do you think i could also run 12.5's with good traction considering my trap was 109? And i'm gonna have to agree with cosby i don't think gm quality control was bad enough to make a 20 or 30hp difference in their engines.
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I'll try posting like you...here we go
I try to be funny, it usually comes naturally and hey, maybe we will
Maybe it is
ROFLOL. I'll take that as a "no" to my answer above about what makes your car a "freak". I'll take that as a "yes" to my assumption that it "just is". If i knew exactly why my car was a freak, i assure you, the first time someone asked my why it is as fast as it is I would have told them the answer then and there and much to my shagrin, we wouldnt be here right now. It gets old after a while everytime you race someone new, they dont believe youre not spraying or more modded then you say you are
Like i stated above, there is no convincing mustang owners who already know it all
Now youre just putting words in my mouth and trying to prove something off that. I have also owned a 2001 Mustang GT, and it was at the slow end of the freak/dog spectrum. Every car is going to have a variation in one that rolls off the line to another. If you think its a GM or LS1 isolated occurance take a stroll on over to mach 1 registry or stangnet where ive read countles posts on "one of mach feels tons stronger than another.", and there's about a 20 hp stock variation dyno proven there too
Let me know when you reach your final answer
LOL. That's kind of funny. So is it harder to measure "non-freaks" after they're modded, or is it not so hard?
When youre comparing two different cars with two possible different drivetrains with different mods it a little harder than comparing two stock cars, isnt it?
Cool, but I have some really sad news for you - I think you're a lot of talk. Not all talk, but a lot of it. And I said before, I can send you whatever kind of dyno you want. It can say modded, stock, 277 RWHP, 315 RWHP, SAE, STD, ACTUAL, whatever. Well unlike you, im not the type of person to bullshit numbers or track times. I am proud of my no bs reputation and i just dont care enough to lie even if i didnt. All of my dyno runs are also videotaped to avoid any future confusion
You are correct - 99's were actually recalled due to not making their claimed HP. I didn't dyno mine before the recall, so I cannot provide after results.
Theres a little truth out of you. That didnt hurt near as much as you thought, did it?
Probably ought to call this an evening, and besides, I have to take my eldest (high school freshman - will be driving soon
) to TaeKwonDo....he's only about 6 months away from his black belt. ![Grin](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_grin.gif)
Have a good evening.
Well bob, not to flame you, but when i'm your age, i hope to be on a lamborghini board having a similar conversation with their owners about my ferrari
Im glad youre a fan of our cars. Hope i've given you insight on what they are capable of with a lid and exhaust
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
ROFLOL Venkman, you're a funny dude. I suppose we can continue. Tis good fun, and perhaps we'll all learn something?
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
Maybe it isn't as fast you think it is?
![Icon Confused](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies2/icon_confused.gif)
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
ROFLOL. I'll take that as a "no" to my answer above about what makes your car a "freak". I'll take that as a "yes" to my assumption that it "just is".
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
Once again...Mr Kettle, kindly meet Mr Black. But no, you have not proven much of anything to me. Then again, I didn't think you were trying to?
![The Jester](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_jest.gif)
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
Haven't we already been over this? Maybe GM quality control is just seriously BAD that the motors vary so much? That's sad.
Pssst....I don't believe GM's quality control was that bad. You can if you wish.
Pssst....I don't believe GM's quality control was that bad. You can if you wish.
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
Was I implying that? Hmmm...have to think about that one.
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
LOL. That's kind of funny. So is it harder to measure "non-freaks" after they're modded, or is it not so hard?
![Rolleyes](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/rolleyes.gif)
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
Cool, but I have some really sad news for you - I think you're a lot of talk. Not all talk, but a lot of it. And I said before, I can send you whatever kind of dyno you want. It can say modded, stock, 277 RWHP, 315 RWHP, SAE, STD, ACTUAL, whatever.
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
You are correct - 99's were actually recalled due to not making their claimed HP. I didn't dyno mine before the recall, so I cannot provide after results.
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
Probably ought to call this an evening, and besides, I have to take my eldest (high school freshman - will be driving soon
![EEK !!](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_eek2.gif)
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Have a good evening.
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![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
PS...In case you didn't know, I'm a HUGE fan of the LS1/LS6, and am quite aware of what they are capable of.
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Originally Posted by git_sum
Is your Mach1 manual or automatic, and if your gettin getting 12.5's at a 108 do you think i could also run 12.5's with good traction considering my trap was 109? And i'm gonna have to agree with cosby i don't think gm quality control was bad enough to make a 20 or 30hp difference in their engines.
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Originally Posted by Venkman
I'll try posting like you...here we go
![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
Originally Posted by Venkman
If i knew exactly why my car was a freak, i assure you, the first time someone asked my why it is as fast as it is I would have told them the answer then and there and much to my shagrin, we wouldnt be here right now. It gets old after a while everytime you race someone new, they dont believe youre not spraying or more modded then you say you are
![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
Originally Posted by Venkman
Every car is going to have a variation in one that rolls off the line to another.
Originally Posted by Venkman
If you think its a GM or LS1 isolated occurance take a stroll on over to mach 1 registry or stangnet where ive read countles posts on "one of mach feels tons stronger than another."
Originally Posted by Venkman
and there's about a 20 hp stock variation dyno proven there too
Go ahead....ask.
Originally Posted by Venkman
When youre comparing two different cars with two possible different drivetrains with different mods it a little harder than comparing two stock cars, isnt it?
![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
Originally Posted by Venkman
Well unlike you, im not the type of person to bullshit numbers or track times.
Originally Posted by Venkman
I am proud of my no bs reputation
Originally Posted by Venkman
and i just dont care enough to lie even if i didnt.
Originally Posted by Venkman
All of my dyno runs are also videotaped to avoid any future confusion
Originally Posted by Venkman
Theres a little truth out of you. That didnt hurt near as much as you thought, did it?
Originally Posted by Venkman
Well bob, not to flame you, but when i'm your age, i hope to be on a lamborghini board having a similar conversation with their owners about my ferrari ![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
![Grin](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_grin.gif)
Originally Posted by Venkman
Im glad youre a fan of our cars. Hope i've given you insight on what they are capable of with a lid and exhaust ![Winky](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_wink.gif)
![Winky](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_wink.gif)
On the street....
![](http://members.***.net/rdcosby1/ta/images/ta3.jpg)
On the drag strip....
![](http://members.***.net/rdcosby1/ta/images/mir-ta1.jpg)
And on a road course....
![](http://members.***.net/rdcosby1/ta/images/turn5.jpg)
I'll admit though, I have just a weeeee bit more experience with Mustangs (5 meg .mpg link - dial-up beware!).
BTW...that was almost 3 years ago....and you'll love the hat.
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Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
LOL. I don't feel "dissed". You're welcomed to your opinion....even if it is misguided.
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Im not gonna lower myself to picking apart every word you said in your last post. We'll be here for the next 35 years. I'm glad youve had your 15 mins of fame, but i'll sleep better knowing mine are still ahead of me rather than long gone. BTW Bob, nice hat
![The Jester](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_jest.gif)
Nice to have a name with a face. Now i gotta go to sleep, i got Jr. High School tomorrow
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#119
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Venkman: Lighten up. Cosby is just trying to get under your skin. Let it all slide because it isn't worth getting upset with. Cosby is right about dynos. They are not comparison tools. Different dynos, even of the same brand, produce different results even in the same shop with the same car in the same time block. They're tuning tools. Track times do show a little better comparison, not perfect but better. There are variables big time, though. Your engine may have something crazy inside of it you don't even know about that makes it stronger, i don't know. Maybe your engine sold its soul to the Devil
You' have also generalized Mustang people by a visit to the Mach1Registry. I was apart of the thread you go onto over there, no body believes crazy things unless they see it for them selves. I have never heard of a "stock LS1 engine powered f body" (quotes just set apart the description...not belittling your car at all) running the times yours is. So, wouldn't that be crazy if a GT owner came over claiming 120 Trap speeds and such? He'd get blasted outta here immediately. Have fun with your car, tear down the engine and build it up, sell it, trade it, wreck it, or do nothing with it except have fun. The key, no matter what the outcome of your car becomes, is to have fun.
Cosby: you're a funny guy in an evil way. Too many posts in this thread though. It has driven me crazy. It was fun while it lasted, until my head started hurting. I'd hate to be on your bad side.
git_sum: I won't admit to reliability at all, and if we're talking horsepower per cubic inch and dollar, GM doesn't make terribly better engines. On average a z28 with over a liter larger engine that also costs about the same as my Mach 1 does not have faster ET's. They're so close it is a driver's race. The GT and z28 are not as close in price as the Mach 1 and z28--sticker at high 20's. Oh yeah about your time and trap speed. A stock LS1 usually traps higher than my stock Mach 1, but, from what I've seen, the ETs are very close. So if you have a 109 trap speed, that doesn't always mean you'll be pushing the same ET as a Mach 1 with the same trap speed. That's just my two cents though. Good luck with your racing adventures. I love fast cars, as I have said before.
everyone: I'm calling an end to this thread. It has been beaten to death.
![Winky](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_wink.gif)
Cosby: you're a funny guy in an evil way. Too many posts in this thread though. It has driven me crazy. It was fun while it lasted, until my head started hurting. I'd hate to be on your bad side.
git_sum: I won't admit to reliability at all, and if we're talking horsepower per cubic inch and dollar, GM doesn't make terribly better engines. On average a z28 with over a liter larger engine that also costs about the same as my Mach 1 does not have faster ET's. They're so close it is a driver's race. The GT and z28 are not as close in price as the Mach 1 and z28--sticker at high 20's. Oh yeah about your time and trap speed. A stock LS1 usually traps higher than my stock Mach 1, but, from what I've seen, the ETs are very close. So if you have a 109 trap speed, that doesn't always mean you'll be pushing the same ET as a Mach 1 with the same trap speed. That's just my two cents though. Good luck with your racing adventures. I love fast cars, as I have said before.
everyone: I'm calling an end to this thread. It has been beaten to death.
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Originally Posted by Venkman
Thats the way to be an elitiest. Tell that moron....you were on ESPN, he doesnt have **** on you
Im not gonna lower myself to picking apart every word you said in your last post. We'll be here for the next 35 years. I'm glad youve had your 15 mins of fame, but i'll sleep better knowing mine are still ahead of me rather than long gone. BTW Bob, nice hat
Nice to have a name with a face. Now i gotta go to sleep, i got Jr. High School tomorrow![Driving](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_driving3.gif)
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![Gay!!](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_rainbow.gif)
Im not gonna lower myself to picking apart every word you said in your last post. We'll be here for the next 35 years. I'm glad youve had your 15 mins of fame, but i'll sleep better knowing mine are still ahead of me rather than long gone. BTW Bob, nice hat
![The Jester](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_jest.gif)
Nice to have a name with a face. Now i gotta go to sleep, i got Jr. High School tomorrow
![Driving](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_driving3.gif)
![Grin](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_grin.gif)
Oh, did I mention that you've already "lowered" yourself by picking apart my posts too? That excuse doesn't wash, Jr. Nice try though.
![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
Thanks for the compliment on the hat - it's not near as nice as the new one I have. I'll have it out proudly displayed for the 2004 racing season. Perhaps your class can take a field trip to one of them?
![Fluffy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies2/fluffy.gif)
Oliver...glad to see that someone caught on real quick. You must be over 15.
![Winky](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_wink.gif)
Ya'll have a wonderful day now, hear?
(and pssst...enjoy your car - no matter what it is. I certainly do enjoy mine)