Want to see how big a difference gears make?
09-02-2008, 06:44 PM
#43
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I dispute the idea that gears make no difference above 25mph as others have mentioned....1st through 4th gear it makes a noticeable difference IMO, and while my shift points do come up sooner than a stock geared M6, I am capable of shifting fast enough for it to not make a huge difference....
09-02-2008, 10:53 PM
#44
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Regardless if gears helped or not, James's car runs VERY hard for as little as it has, Ive seen that SS run down some pretty impressive vehicles. It is indeed a factory freak.
09-03-2008, 10:18 AM
#47
Tire sizes also effect RPMsat speeds as well, correct? Wouldn't say, 18s like mine decrease the MPH at 80? Larger tires, lower RPMS. If all you guys are stock, with differect RPM readings, then someones gears are off. Also, speedos need to be calibrated, thus why I can't give my actual speed rpm lol.
09-03-2008, 01:18 PM
#48
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black bur your logic is flawed at best... Sure, when you shift into 3rd his 2nd is going to pull better, but by the time you have shifted into third youve already smoked him through 2nd, and when he shifts into 3rd you are going to start pulling again. In the same gear, two cars with 4.10s and 3.42s that are otherwise equal are not going to accelerate at the same rate, the geared car will win.
I dont see what makes you think that gears dont make a difference, theyre very effective, especially in M6 cars like ours that are geared pretty damn tall to begin with.
Furthermore, lets say that you are right (which you arent...) and you dont accelerate faster with gears. I have a 98 formula with a H/C/I LS6 that makes 430rwhp. Now, my cars no dog at low rpm, but when the tach hits 4500rpm the **** hits the fan all the way to 7200. For a car like mine a set of 4.10s will make a biiiiiig difference, especially on the highway roll racing.
I dont see what makes you think that gears dont make a difference, theyre very effective, especially in M6 cars like ours that are geared pretty damn tall to begin with.
Furthermore, lets say that you are right (which you arent...) and you dont accelerate faster with gears. I have a 98 formula with a H/C/I LS6 that makes 430rwhp. Now, my cars no dog at low rpm, but when the tach hits 4500rpm the **** hits the fan all the way to 7200. For a car like mine a set of 4.10s will make a biiiiiig difference, especially on the highway roll racing.
09-03-2008, 01:26 PM
#49
black bur your logic is flawed at best... Sure, when you shift into 3rd his 2nd is going to pull better, but by the time you have shifted into third youve already smoked him through 2nd, and when he shifts into 3rd you are going to start pulling again. In the same gear, two cars with 4.10s and 3.42s that are otherwise equal are not going to accelerate at the same rate, the geared car will win.
I dont see what makes you think that gears dont make a difference, theyre very effective, especially in M6 cars like ours that are geared pretty damn tall to begin with.
Furthermore, lets say that you are right (which you arent...) and you dont accelerate faster with gears. I have a 98 formula with a H/C/I LS6 that makes 430rwhp. Now, my cars no dog at low rpm, but when the tach hits 4500rpm the **** hits the fan all the way to 7200. For a car like mine a set of 4.10s will make a biiiiiig difference, especially on the highway roll racing.
I dont see what makes you think that gears dont make a difference, theyre very effective, especially in M6 cars like ours that are geared pretty damn tall to begin with.
Furthermore, lets say that you are right (which you arent...) and you dont accelerate faster with gears. I have a 98 formula with a H/C/I LS6 that makes 430rwhp. Now, my cars no dog at low rpm, but when the tach hits 4500rpm the **** hits the fan all the way to 7200. For a car like mine a set of 4.10s will make a biiiiiig difference, especially on the highway roll racing.
09-03-2008, 06:38 PM
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I have to dissagree with the poster who said gears dont make that big of a difference. My car had 4.10s in it when i bought it. The rear end broke and now i am back to 3.42s. I know my car is slower now than it was with the gears. I know seat of the pants isn't a race track, but from a roll my car feels like it lost at least 30hp to the wheels with the stock gears.
09-03-2008, 08:33 PM
#51
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50whp difference and one has 2.73 gears the other has 4.10 gears in the "what looked like" an 1/8 mi. race??? I'll put money on the guy with 4.10's. And this is mexico where whp is negotiable 
.
however I don't want you LS1 guys getting 4.10's, ifya know what I mean ;-).
.however I don't want you LS1 guys getting 4.10's, ifya know what I mean ;-).
09-03-2008, 11:15 PM
#53
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I'm auto and at 80 its 2800 rpm's with 3.73, and gears do make a difference if your able to hook up. with my bolt ons i got the same result at the track as with just lid and the slp exhaust which was 13.3, trap speed was a little quicker. (w/3.23)I had 3.73's put in and it went 13.0 flat consistantly.
Last edited by gregsss; 09-03-2008 at 11:24 PM.
09-04-2008, 12:29 PM
#55
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50whp difference and one has 2.73 gears the other has 4.10 gears in the "what looked like" an 1/8 mi. race??? I'll put money on the guy with 4.10's. And this is mexico where whp is negotiable .
however I don't want you LS1 guys getting 4.10's, ifya know what I mean ;-).
.however I don't want you LS1 guys getting 4.10's, ifya know what I mean ;-).
Race covered probably 1/6 of a mile....Where we run we have a 1/4 mile marked, but this rolling race started just after the typical starting line...
My favorite part of Mexico is the donkey show
09-04-2008, 07:40 PM
#56
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black bur your logic is flawed at best... Sure, when you shift into 3rd his 2nd is going to pull better, but by the time you have shifted into third youve already smoked him through 2nd, and when he shifts into 3rd you are going to start pulling again. In the same gear, two cars with 4.10s and 3.42s that are otherwise equal are not going to accelerate at the same rate, the geared car will win.
I dont see what makes you think that gears dont make a difference, theyre very effective, especially in M6 cars like ours that are geared pretty damn tall to begin with.
Furthermore, lets say that you are right (which you arent...) and you dont accelerate faster with gears. I have a 98 formula with a H/C/I LS6 that makes 430rwhp. Now, my cars no dog at low rpm, but when the tach hits 4500rpm the **** hits the fan all the way to 7200. For a car like mine a set of 4.10s will make a biiiiiig difference, especially on the highway roll racing.
I dont see what makes you think that gears dont make a difference, theyre very effective, especially in M6 cars like ours that are geared pretty damn tall to begin with.
Furthermore, lets say that you are right (which you arent...) and you dont accelerate faster with gears. I have a 98 formula with a H/C/I LS6 that makes 430rwhp. Now, my cars no dog at low rpm, but when the tach hits 4500rpm the **** hits the fan all the way to 7200. For a car like mine a set of 4.10s will make a biiiiiig difference, especially on the highway roll racing.
That being said, as long as you are going more than 25MPH you will both be in your "powerband". The gear ratios of your transmission will still be the same in both cars, and so when you shift you will both start the new gear at the same RPMs. You will be at different speeds going into the new gear, but will both begin it with identical RPMs. This means that after you hit the powerband in first both engines will have the same 'average' torque multiplier from the start of the race till the end.
09-05-2008, 04:04 AM
#58
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First that is not logic those are the laws of physics. Second I didn't say gears don't help, because they do. I said gears don't help you unless you start from a very slow roll or the line. Third who sets the rules of a race such that both cars start at the bottom of the same gear? Any one I know that roll races starts with their cars side by side at the same speed.
That being said, as long as you are going more than 25MPH you will both be in your "powerband". The gear ratios of your transmission will still be the same in both cars, and so when you shift you will both start the new gear at the same RPMs. You will be at different speeds going into the new gear, but will both begin it with identical RPMs. This means that after you hit the powerband in first both engines will have the same 'average' torque multiplier from the start of the race till the end.
That being said, as long as you are going more than 25MPH you will both be in your "powerband". The gear ratios of your transmission will still be the same in both cars, and so when you shift you will both start the new gear at the same RPMs. You will be at different speeds going into the new gear, but will both begin it with identical RPMs. This means that after you hit the powerband in first both engines will have the same 'average' torque multiplier from the start of the race till the end.
gears in a transmission dont mean **** between final drive ratios. the final drive gear ratio sets the stage for how fast you will accelerate, and for those who care, decelerate.
the gear reduction basically acts as a torque multiplier on the rear wheels....i hate explaining this ****...
a 4.10:1 gear ratio in the rear will allow the 2.66:1 ratio 1st gear to accelerate, or run through the rpms a lot faster than a 3.42:1 ratio. and the process repeats itself through 2nd gear...3rd gear, 4th, 5th..and...you guessed it! 6th gear.
the hole driveline relies on the the final drive....cause if there was no rear guess what? you wouldnt be able to keep a constant speed, you would just get slower and slower with each gear reduction. because you would be stuck with those gear ratios in the transmission.....2.66 1.78 1.30 0.74 and 0.50
so by your logic..identical cars, final drive is 3.42 in one and 4.10 in the other....
same RPM, same gear from a roll they can take off and shift at the same time? WRONG!
if they were at the same rpm they wouldn't be able to stay next to each other at the same speed!
you have obviously never had experience with gear ratios, and simple machines like levers and ****. 4.10s will ultimately accelerate ALL gear ratios in the transmission faster, therefore making a car accelerate faster, simple gear reduction-torque multiplication math. and guess where the "average" torque multiplication comes from?
...THE FINAL DRIVE!
Last edited by DevilDougWS6; 09-05-2008 at 04:14 AM.
09-05-2008, 06:10 AM
#60
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they helped him keep up with 50 more hp to the wheels. actually its more like 70 more hp because he only has 330ish, maybe 340 with his mods after his last dyno.