Complete suspension build
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 221
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This is why (to me at least) an engineer's job is not complete unless once the issue is worked out on paper, computer, simulations, etc etc it is tested IRL. That is when you will experience and observe the real world complications of the issue. Sure, in simulations and working it out before real life testing you will come across and conjure up problems/concerns on the issue but not until it is tested in real life by trial and error does it stand a chance of being fully understood and having the kinks worked out of it.
EDIT: /hijack
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,265
Likes: 1
From: CHITOWN
You DO NOT want a road race car on the street. I tried it. I didn't even drive mine daily - I just drove it to/from the track. Wanna know why?
I was returning from the track one afternoon. My car was completely gutted, including no dashboard, no A/C or heater, no nothing. I was hauling my tire trailer.
Well, it started to rain. Not a big deal, except I had no side windows. So, I was getting a little wet. Still not a big deal.
It got bad when the windshield fogged up all of a sudden for no reason. All of a sudden, I can't see anything. So, I start pulling over on the interstate. Then, the car hydroplanes.
Now, I can see where I'm going, but only because I'm sliding sideways down the interstate. Luckily, the trailer pulled me back straight, and I got it slowed down and on the shoulder.
No radio, no A/C, no heater, no carpet, no mufflers - not a good car on the street. And I thought I was hard core.
The other reason you don't want a road race car for the street is that you stand a good chance of damaging the car at the track (either hitting something or breaking something). What are you going to drive home?
My advice is to call some of the vendors (Sam is my choice) and talk with them. Sam is going to ask some very pointed questions. Be 100% honest. When he asks what you can spend, tell him the amount, down to the dollar. He'll set you up and get you where you want to be. You may want more, later - but that's later!
I was returning from the track one afternoon. My car was completely gutted, including no dashboard, no A/C or heater, no nothing. I was hauling my tire trailer.
Well, it started to rain. Not a big deal, except I had no side windows. So, I was getting a little wet. Still not a big deal.
It got bad when the windshield fogged up all of a sudden for no reason. All of a sudden, I can't see anything. So, I start pulling over on the interstate. Then, the car hydroplanes.
Now, I can see where I'm going, but only because I'm sliding sideways down the interstate. Luckily, the trailer pulled me back straight, and I got it slowed down and on the shoulder.
No radio, no A/C, no heater, no carpet, no mufflers - not a good car on the street. And I thought I was hard core.
The other reason you don't want a road race car for the street is that you stand a good chance of damaging the car at the track (either hitting something or breaking something). What are you going to drive home?
My advice is to call some of the vendors (Sam is my choice) and talk with them. Sam is going to ask some very pointed questions. Be 100% honest. When he asks what you can spend, tell him the amount, down to the dollar. He'll set you up and get you where you want to be. You may want more, later - but that's later!
This is exactly how my drag car was, full boltons gutted to hell
I drove mine in the winter time!
With a winter jacket,gloves and a hat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Having no defrost or heat is the worse thing ever
Who carries the complete UMI line, and a few other parts that UMI doesn't make.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
sam. earlier they you said you don't like the tunnel mount arms. what if i have the UMI 3 point subframe?
also if long torque arm is for turning. and short is for launching. what you had one in the center? like half way between the tunnel mount and the trany mount? would that be the best of both worlds?
also reason i want to know is i want my car to be drivin hard on the intersate and back curvy roads. but alos to hold a 600 horse luanch at the track or street.
thanks sam
also if long torque arm is for turning. and short is for launching. what you had one in the center? like half way between the tunnel mount and the trany mount? would that be the best of both worlds?
also reason i want to know is i want my car to be drivin hard on the intersate and back curvy roads. but alos to hold a 600 horse luanch at the track or street.
thanks sam
This is why (to me at least) an engineer's job is not complete unless once the issue is worked out on paper, computer, simulations, etc etc it is tested IRL. That is when you will experience and observe the real world complications of the issue. Sure, in simulations and working it out before real life testing you will come across and conjure up problems/concerns on the issue but not until it is tested in real life by trial and error does it stand a chance of being fully understood and having the kinks worked out of it.
EDIT: /hijack
EDIT: /hijack
I don't know if there's any engineering involved in driving better, because that seems to make the biggest impact on the track. Sam could kick my *** in a really poorly setup car probably if I drove his own ESP Camaro, by several seconds.
So while you have a point, I think most of us are distracted by other things like me for instance and learning how to drive better. Since a lot of parts out there have been decently engineered "good enough", then I'll take those for the mean time. But its not the parts of my car that's making me slow, its the driver
sam. earlier they you said you don't like the tunnel mount arms. what if i have the UMI 3 point subframe?
also if long torque arm is for turning. and short is for launching. what you had one in the center? like half way between the tunnel mount and the trany mount? would that be the best of both worlds?
also reason i want to know is i want my car to be drivin hard on the intersate and back curvy roads. but alos to hold a 600 horse luanch at the track or street.
thanks sam
also if long torque arm is for turning. and short is for launching. what you had one in the center? like half way between the tunnel mount and the trany mount? would that be the best of both worlds?
also reason i want to know is i want my car to be drivin hard on the intersate and back curvy roads. but alos to hold a 600 horse luanch at the track or street.
thanks sam
But remember the is a difference between "tunnel brace mount" and "tunnel mount" TA's.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
oh sam you just opended me up to a whole bunch of questions.
pelase explain. please. and which ones you like better?
also you never answered this question "also if long torque arm is for turning. and short is for launching. what you had one in the center? like half way between the tunnel mount and the trany mount? would that be the best of both worlds?"
pelase explain. please. and which ones you like better?
also you never answered this question "also if long torque arm is for turning. and short is for launching. what you had one in the center? like half way between the tunnel mount and the trany mount? would that be the best of both worlds?"
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Verdad Gallardo I have explained, many times. I run a full length arm, and could run anything I choose. What do you think I prefer?
Where are you going to mount "one in the center?"
Where are you going to mount "one in the center?"
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
I would think that would give you a little less brake hop than a tunnle but it would still be there, and would launch a bit better than a full length. I don't think it would be worth it though because it would have to be custom, would still mount to a weak part of the floor, and wouldn't really give you much gain. The umi 3pt SFC's are pretty nice but if I were to go for a tunnle mounted arm I'd get the SLP 3pts because they are a bit more substantial. As for which arm... I'm not sure. I've never really looked at tunnle mounted arms much because they don't suite my application. For a car that sees mostly street use I'd go with a full lenght arm preferably mounted off the trans.
oh sam you just opended me up to a whole bunch of questions.
pelase explain. please. and which ones you like better?
also you never answered this question "also if long torque arm is for turning. and short is for launching. what you had one in the center? like half way between the tunnel mount and the trany mount? would that be the best of both worlds?"
pelase explain. please. and which ones you like better?
also you never answered this question "also if long torque arm is for turning. and short is for launching. what you had one in the center? like half way between the tunnel mount and the trany mount? would that be the best of both worlds?"
That's a pretty vague question. If you're interested in details, you might want to ask what makes the car stick to the ground. Good soft tire compound, alignment, how much tire patch you have under certain conditions, how the suspension and everything effects weight transfer, how the limited slip differential works, etc, stuff like the instant center which I don't really understand that well at this point but trying to figure out.
Thread Starter
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 597
Likes: 0
From: Farmington NH
AAAAAAAAANYYYWAY... Should I stay away from packages like this?! http://www.umiperformance.com/fbt006
Unless it's a drag car--yes. MHO.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,798
Likes: 16
From: St.Charles MO
Let me ask you guys this... Are cars that are built for road courses noisy/ not daily drivable?
My whole thing is that i want to do the entire build of this car all at once... So i suppose going piece by piece with suspension parts is do-able but certainly not easiest when it comes to actually building the car.
My whole thing is that i want to do the entire build of this car all at once... So i suppose going piece by piece with suspension parts is do-able but certainly not easiest when it comes to actually building the car.
Well lets say you throw on a bunch of parts, you get the car out on the road and you are getting a really loud squeek, how would you even begin to know where to look? What if after the install of all the parts you don't like a certain aspect of how the car drives, like how it handles or rides? Where do you go from there then? There are so many different things you could do/change/adjust that it would be easy to get lost in knowing what the "right" thing to change/adjust etc.
Doing one thing, or a couple things at a time will help in the long run IMO. You add a single part and don't like it, take it off/change it. You can then tune to your own needs. Another example, doing something like swaybars. One at a time you can tell the effect each have on your car. You get the front on, drive with it, then later the rear. You can then evaluate and see if you want more/less bar to change the handling.
Where to start? As everyone has said, one thing that you do need is better shocks. Get some good shocks first, and you will be pleasantly surprised at how well your car handles.
I did shocks first, then front bar, rear bar, then springs. The only reason I continued to mod after the shocks was because I got hooked after seeing what the shocks had done for the car. I was perfectly satisfied with the handling, but got a little greedy and wanted more...
Thread Starter
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 597
Likes: 0
From: Farmington NH
Im not saying you are wrong by any means but to me it seems like there should be setups out there that are tried and true for an f-body... Havent these packages have been tested and built the way they are for a reason?
The best setup is really not that uncommon of things.
The Watts link setup Sam sells
tubular K-member
adjustable control arms
Konis
adjustable lower control arms
full length torque arm
lower control arm relocation brackets
Strano springs
Strano sway bars
Those are pretty much the best of the best when it comes to each individual part, so together they should make a killer combo.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,798
Likes: 16
From: St.Charles MO
If you do want a package I would highly recommend Sam's handling package over anyone else's (although its seems like its not on his site now).
The above setup looks good, minus the relocation brackets. And if you do choose to get a tubular k-member make sure its the one for road racing and not drag: http://www.umiperformance.com/2321?category_id=122
Honestly a lot of this stuff is overkill if you are not racing. Just know the main items that make the biggest difference are shocks, springs and swaybars.