IRS convertion in LS1 Camaro
05-20-2009, 03:15 PM
#41
Irs Also hooks better on the street. Lots better properly setup. i would enjoy this on my car very much. Would love to see some people getting together to find a way to make this happen without braking the bank.
05-21-2009, 09:25 AM
#43
Not surprisingly, the upgrade looks like the 4th gen formy, except the exhaust isn't quite as cool. Not sure this is the same third gen, but it has been done several times on third gens.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...0IRS/irs-b.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...0IRS/irs-b.jpg
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/st...roducts_id=283
Last edited by lees02WS6; 05-21-2009 at 10:06 AM.
05-22-2009, 03:49 AM
#44
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Why is it that anytime someone asks about fitting IRS all they get is "stick with the beam, it's better for drag racing" or "buy a 'vette/GTO" I know that the standard setup is pretty good and it's a lot of hassle to fit IRS, but IRS IS better for road use, don't you guys modify your cars? I have an 88 GTA that I am planning a LSx for, should I just buy something that already has an LSx in it? I have been trying to research the C4 IRS swap, and these are the main responses that I see, how about we point out that it is a hard swap, then start talking about how we could go about it and what the main hurdles are, rather than just saying it's bad idea. That zues swap is very nice, there was some more pics of that one here somewhere. As for third-gen swaps, I haven't been able to find pics of one yet, but as someone said earlier it would be the same as forth-gen anyway. What are the track widths of C4 rear ends, I read somewhere that there are 2 different ones, the early ones are narrower I think
Yeah, any thread like this is going to get the people that suggest just going with their solution. It is also going to get the suggestions, as it sounds like the op is pondering, to make sure everything is upgraded and matched as an interim step.
The ultimate test and final answer to an IRS vs a finely tuned solid axle 4th gen F body setup has not to my knowledge been shown. That would be having a known skilled & talented driver with a properly set up solid axle car at a road course with a pair of similarly set up F bodies, 1 with a solid axle setup and 1 with an IRS. Maybe a day of testing and tweaking for each to make sure the driver is confident in both. Then, on a different day, do 1 heat with each car.
Would be nice to have an unlimited budget to do such things.
Until this is done I can't help but pay attention to how well even the hpde guys are doing with a properly tuned solid axle.
Now on the C4 setups...all I really remember is the width of the ZR1 is greater. Don't know if that was in wider wheels with different backspacing or suspension. Another reason I try to avoid thoughts like a 4th gen F body IRS is I would be wanting to go full-bore insane and try a C5 or C6 torque tube/transmission/axle setup.
The ultimate test and final answer to an IRS vs a finely tuned solid axle 4th gen F body setup has not to my knowledge been shown. That would be having a known skilled & talented driver with a properly set up solid axle car at a road course with a pair of similarly set up F bodies, 1 with a solid axle setup and 1 with an IRS. Maybe a day of testing and tweaking for each to make sure the driver is confident in both. Then, on a different day, do 1 heat with each car.
Would be nice to have an unlimited budget to do such things.
Until this is done I can't help but pay attention to how well even the hpde guys are doing with a properly tuned solid axle.
Now on the C4 setups...all I really remember is the width of the ZR1 is greater. Don't know if that was in wider wheels with different backspacing or suspension. Another reason I try to avoid thoughts like a 4th gen F body IRS is I would be wanting to go full-bore insane and try a C5 or C6 torque tube/transmission/axle setup.
I dont think people throw out the idea of IRS just because its IRS.
I think its because he started off saying i have no money, and i dont plan on doing this anytime soon.
Then later in the thread he says that he has stock shocks and crappy tires....
and he wonders why it doesn't handle well...
Back to basics. please
05-23-2009, 05:52 AM
#45
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I dont think people throw out the idea of IRS just because its IRS.
I think its because he started off saying i have no money, and i dont plan on doing this anytime soon.
Then later in the thread he says that he has stock shocks and crappy tires....
and he wonders why it doesn't handle well...
Back to basics. please
I think its because he started off saying i have no money, and i dont plan on doing this anytime soon.
Then later in the thread he says that he has stock shocks and crappy tires....
and he wonders why it doesn't handle well...
Back to basics. please
05-23-2009, 06:25 AM
#46
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I am looking to get some information on what is needed as well as costs involved in swapping in an IRS rear end in my 02 Camaro. I tried doing a search but i found little that helped. I know there have been threads on this before, but maybe im just not trying the right keywords. Can anyone shed some light on this with some pics, personal experience, or write-ups to get me in the right direction.
I dont have a budget or a time table for this project. Im just doing a little homework for now. I know that IRS is less power than solid rear, but my car isnt going to be a track queen. Im really just trying to get the Camaro to handle better and perhaps have a smoother ride quality.
I dont have a budget or a time table for this project. Im just doing a little homework for now. I know that IRS is less power than solid rear, but my car isnt going to be a track queen. Im really just trying to get the Camaro to handle better and perhaps have a smoother ride quality.
After much research, I learned the IRS would help if I could get the number of moving parts dialed in correctly. Since I am not an engineer and my friends don't design suspensions for a living - I ruled out the possibility of installing an IRS at this time as there are not many people who have knowledge to help with this goal. Since I could not do the work myself - cost would be pretty high $2K - $10K and there were other places I would rather deploy that funding to improve my car (02 camaro vert ss).
Solid axle is old yes, but it is easier to tune as there are less variables and there are many people who have vast knowledge in getting our suspensions to work very well. Also you will find solid axle in many professional race series so to think the set-up is incapible of turning at high speed is not an accurate classification.
After I replaced my tires, springs and shocks, the car handled vastly different and carrying speed through a turn was not a problem. My friends were schocked to see difference and swore I installed more suspension parts than these three items as I was keeping pace with them in the turns and blowing them away on the straights as my car produces over 550 hp.
Keep searching and best of luck, but don't rule out your current set-up as you have not tapped its potental...
Last edited by will01; 05-23-2009 at 12:02 PM.
05-23-2009, 10:27 AM
#47
That's a fair call, but there is always the "buy a vette/GTO" stuff. Or "IRS doesn't belong on an F-body". I find it amazing that there are people out there that still debate whether IRS is better, in all top cars they have IRS. The ONLY reason F-bodies don't was cost. The 4th gen was originally planned to have IRS, but it was dropped due to cost. On another note, while I know that the GTO/Commodore IRS isn't as good as the C4, has anyone seen one of these rear ends fitted to an F-bod? They are way cheaper and easier to get for me and still better than the stock rear end
Im wondering other than the rearend what is all exactly needed. Lots of custom brackets for sure but what else?
05-23-2009, 01:25 PM
#48
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Thanks guys. Lots of good help here. I started the IRS thread because i thought that was the way to get good handling. But i have dropped the IRS idea and im going to go for some good Koni's and good tires. Right now the car handles well but i have to take a corner a certain way and if i roll on it too hard or with too much G, then the back end slides out. San Strano mentioned that may be to my rear sway bar being over 1".
So i guess my next question is what type of Koni and what brand of tires are rated "best for this type of situation? Also will the coils lower my car, because wont having a lower center of gravity also improve handling?
So i guess my next question is what type of Koni and what brand of tires are rated "best for this type of situation? Also will the coils lower my car, because wont having a lower center of gravity also improve handling?
05-24-2009, 01:38 AM
#49
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I have a 3000GT VR4 which come IRS AWD & AWS. I was thinking of doing something like this with the VR4's rear so that I could incorporate the AWS into the T/A. I already have future plans making the Bird an AWD by utilizing the Trailblazer SS drive train, but having the handling of an AWS system on the Bird would be ****!
Van454 is right! This is what Modding is all about! Taking something great and making it better! Or just unique. 
Imagine me coming up to you and telling you that I have an AWD/AWS Bird that is laying down 600hp to ALL 4 WHEELs... You'd **** yourself and ask for seconds
FYI:
AWD = All Wheel Drive
AWS = All Wheel Steering
DM
Why is it that anytime someone asks about fitting IRS all they get is "stick with the beam, it's better for drag racing" or "buy a 'vette/GTO" I know that the standard setup is pretty good and it's a lot of hassle to fit IRS, but IRS IS better for road use, don't you guys modify your cars?
Imagine me coming up to you and telling you that I have an AWD/AWS Bird that is laying down 600hp to ALL 4 WHEELs... You'd **** yourself and ask for seconds
FYI:
AWD = All Wheel Drive
AWS = All Wheel Steering
DM
Last edited by Devils Mentor; 05-24-2009 at 01:48 AM.
05-25-2009, 06:35 AM
#51
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Thanks guys. Lots of good help here. I started the IRS thread because i thought that was the way to get good handling. But i have dropped the IRS idea and im going to go for some good Koni's and good tires. Right now the car handles well but i have to take a corner a certain way and if i roll on it too hard or with too much G, then the back end slides out. San Strano mentioned that may be to my rear sway bar being over 1".
So i guess my next question is what type of Koni and what brand of tires are rated "best for this type of situation? Also will the coils lower my car, because wont having a lower center of gravity also improve handling?
So i guess my next question is what type of Koni and what brand of tires are rated "best for this type of situation? Also will the coils lower my car, because wont having a lower center of gravity also improve handling?
Just putting on the rear 4/4's with a good set of springs will completely change your car for the better.
If you talk to some of the folks out west (can't mention them here as they are not sponsors) they have a bit of a different approach using coil overs and different sway bars. Both are good, but I prefer Sam's approach and his level of service is excellent.
05-25-2009, 06:43 AM
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1: where do you mount the IRS? Stock location could work, but how will it change the weight distrabution of the car was a big issue. Getting it centered and balanced were big challenges for me.
2: what else is impacted? Exhaust, brake lines, fuel lines, wires; these are a few of the items that would be impacted.
3: how do you tune the car for optimal drive ability? If you took a turn very light and spun out - what caused it? Or, if you took a banking turn at speed and spun out how could you figure out what happened? Or, driving down the street and the rear end is tracking an inch and a half to the left.
It can be done, and I would love to see a high quality kit come out for our cars that has worked through the issues I have mentioned, but these were some of the things that kept me from going forward.
05-27-2009, 12:24 AM
#55
I am all for doing something different and an IRS in an F-Body would be cool.
I think that Koni 4/4's, Strano springs, hollow front bar, adjustable rear bar with Watt's rear and a good set of tires would be way cheaper than an IRS and you would be really impressed by the way it handles/rides.
Just my .02
Good luck with which ever you decide.
05-27-2009, 03:53 AM
#56
This is what I did to my 2000 t/a ws6. First call strano.Installed koni 4/3 shocks,Strano hollow sway bars,lower contol arms,Got some good tires,and the best thing a watts link.
It does not have to be in that order either.You can make the car handle great with some mods.If you really want to, get an IRS if that's what makes you happy.It's your car and you have to live with it in the end.
I am very happy with all the mods I have done to my car.It handles killer.You can make the car handle really great without going to the IRS.I would think about it carefully before you make a decision.Just my two cents worth.
________________________
2000 t/a ws6 with lots of mods
It does not have to be in that order either.You can make the car handle great with some mods.If you really want to, get an IRS if that's what makes you happy.It's your car and you have to live with it in the end.
I am very happy with all the mods I have done to my car.It handles killer.You can make the car handle really great without going to the IRS.I would think about it carefully before you make a decision.Just my two cents worth.
________________________
2000 t/a ws6 with lots of mods
05-27-2009, 05:33 AM
#57
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Whilst on the subject of IRS, let's all bear in mind that some IRS designs are actually WORSE than the F-body SRA. Some actually contain significantly more unsprung weight and some also don't allow for hardly any improvement with concerns to either static or dynamic camber and toe control, which are after all major reasons for an IRS.
It's a good thing that a properly designed Watts link retrofit is finally available because designing an optimally performing IRS for the F-body is not economical or practical at all.
It's a good thing that a properly designed Watts link retrofit is finally available because designing an optimally performing IRS for the F-body is not economical or practical at all.
05-27-2009, 10:30 AM
#58
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Whilst on the subject of IRS, let's all bear in mind that some IRS designs are actually WORSE than the F-body SRA. Some actually contain significantly more unsprung weight and some also don't allow for hardly any improvement with concerns to either static or dynamic camber and toe control, which are after all major reasons for an IRS.
05-27-2009, 11:27 AM
#59
Whilst on the subject of IRS, let's all bear in mind that some IRS designs are actually WORSE than the F-body SRA. Some actually contain significantly more unsprung weight and some also don't allow for hardly any improvement with concerns to either static or dynamic camber and toe control, which are after all major reasons for an IRS.
It's a good thing that a properly designed Watts link retrofit is finally available because designing an optimally performing IRS for the F-body is not economical or practical at all.
It's a good thing that a properly designed Watts link retrofit is finally available because designing an optimally performing IRS for the F-body is not economical or practical at all.
05-27-2009, 11:59 AM
#60
This is the land of subjectivity the comments usually dwell in. People like foxxtron, MLS and the like will see little or no value in such a project unless it shaves time off around the track.
Comments about the Watts link, shocks, tires, etc are no doubt true. However, to me a project like this is less about the numbers and more about the customization. What's that saying about not really "owning the car" unless you've torn it apart and rebuilt it?
What's you're goal? Lapping the fastest. Would any sanctioned autoX body allow a car with this type of mod to run? Quickest 1/4? Why would you even consider this then? I know the OP said he'd dropped this idea.
But, IT IS a good idea for its own reasons. If you're goal is to make a true custom ride, here's a hint - anybody who can spin wrenches can put in a Watts link and nobody at the show will say wow.
Measure your goals and expectations accordingly, and don't let someone talk you out of it. BTW, the DANA 44 can be made to handle more than "210 HP" by quite a lot.
Comments about the Watts link, shocks, tires, etc are no doubt true. However, to me a project like this is less about the numbers and more about the customization. What's that saying about not really "owning the car" unless you've torn it apart and rebuilt it?
What's you're goal? Lapping the fastest. Would any sanctioned autoX body allow a car with this type of mod to run? Quickest 1/4? Why would you even consider this then? I know the OP said he'd dropped this idea.
But, IT IS a good idea for its own reasons. If you're goal is to make a true custom ride, here's a hint - anybody who can spin wrenches can put in a Watts link and nobody at the show will say wow.
Measure your goals and expectations accordingly, and don't let someone talk you out of it. BTW, the DANA 44 can be made to handle more than "210 HP" by quite a lot.