they must not be very good at doing alignments. I think they just adjusted the camber and monitored the caster. They should have been able to go -0.5* camber, then adjust the caster, then readjust any changes in the camber. It is definitely a back and forth adjustment, not a "adjust one thing and see how the other thing is affected". But with those specs you will definitely see better tire wear.

 

It's not going to feel as good at highway speed, because you don't really have enough caster dialed in, first of all. HOWEVER, the caster you do have(are you sure you read it right?) is *** backward!!. You put more caster on the passenger side, to compensate for the natural crown of the road, so the car drives straight. As you posted it, your car has more on the driver's side, so it most likely will "drift left". (I've run as much as 5.5 degrees caster on the driver's side and 6 degrees passenger side, on my car)

I wouldn't be concerned about your toe settings, because a little toe is good.

 

I agree.......

 

Well I watched him do it and he adjusted the camber and then lowered the car and dialed in the caster by using the steering wheel back and forth changing the caster to react and making it what it is now. I spent 4 hours there. My alignment has always had a higher number on the drivers side then the pass. side it looks like. They were glad to see me leave since I made him take too long. Ha! It does seem to be pulling to the left some. It just feels loose not tight like before.

 

Well I just drove the car again today and it pretty much doesn't drive that well at all. I guess they messed up something on the alignment or the specs are not working out on my car. I am mad as heck. I don't even know what to have changed on it now or what is wrong. I guess I will have to find somewhere else but I really don't even know to do about the numbers on it now. I have never had such a problem with a front end alignment.

 

Are you sure this "person" knows ANYTHING about aligning a car? The caster is not "adjusted" by turning the steering wheel. During the alignment procedure, a tool is placed between the steering wheel and drivers seat, to make sure the steering wheel is centered, and doesn't turn during the alignment process, especially when setting the toe. Any changes that are made, are done under the car.

The 4th gen F-body has a lower control arm that has two large bushings, and bolts that go through these bushings. One bushing, the one closest to the front of the car, is in the horizontal plane, and the bolt that retains it rides in a slot in the K-member. This is moved "in and out" to adjust the camber.

The second bushing/bolt is toward the rear of the control arm, and is oriented in the verticle position. This also rides in a slot in the K-member, and this is moved to adjust the caster. (Kent-Moore tools makes a turnbuckle type of tool to help move the a-arms during the alignment process, and it makes the job a LOT easier).

This isn't rocket science, however it isn't a simple 15 minute job, either. As "vjo90" mentioned in his post, you don't set the camber by itself, then make another, unrelated adjustment to get the caster. You have to finesse the adjustments together, in order to get it right.


I know this job from personal experience. Last year, I retired, after 37 years of "factory work". I recently took on a part time job, driving a delivery truck for the local Advance Auto Parts store. Next door to us, is a GoodYear tire store, and I was able to use their alignment rack to do my car, as I had put new tie rod ends in it, therefore it needed to be reset.


I'll admit, it took me two attempts to get it "right on", as the first time I didn't have the tool that I mentioned, and trying to move the a-arms in small increments with a long screwdriver just doesn't work too well. The second time I had the tool, and it went a lot smoother and more quickly, but still took about 45-50 minutes.

 

I am going to a Goodyear store today to try them.

 

This is true, you check caster by sweeping the steering wheel back and forth, you set caster just as you do with camber, if you adjust one mounting point and not the other it will always change both angles, usually pushing one out of spec as you adjust one in. Only if you adjust the front and rear of the control arm can you "dial in" camber and caster.

If he didnt have the tool for the control arm it would be a bitch to do just because its easier to pry the control arm out making camber negative than it is to pry it back towards the center of the car.

Also, in the event that the control arm was adjusted (front and rear bushings) then its possibly your springs may be a little too worn to give the correct camber specs with the correct caster at the same time. Takes some old *** springs to do that though.

 

I found it hard to locate a reputable shop that actually had a person who knows alignments, instead of the poor noobs that get thrown in there from time to time.

Some of these other shops wouldnt even touch my car saying they didnt have the special tool for the alignment.

Try to find someone who knows what they are doing, when you do get the lifetime alignment.

The guy where i got my lifetime alignment is really good.

I just had him set my alignment for autox...came out good.

-.8 camber both sides
0 toe
5.8 caster both sides

when i say both sides they are within .1, so close enough!

Car feels really good with the -camber, sounds like -.8 might be alot, but not really, IMO they should have come like that stock.

For RR and autox, you want even more, but the stock bushing hold you back.

I'm looking into replacing them to gain a little more - camber.

Good luck

 

I was shooting for 4.5 Caster. Is that good enough? I don't think my springs are worn. The car has 70,000 miles and they are mostly highway miles. He didn't adjust the caster at all on the car. This guy has been working at the dealer for 12 years doing alignments. That is scary. He told me a positive toe would make the tires point out at the front too. Ha!

 

On the Hunter machine, yes, you do the sweep during the initial set-up, when you're starting the alignment. After that, you don't need to move the steering wheel again, as the machine's computer takes both caster and camber readings at the same time. It is, however, a good practice to release the steering wheel lock tool and do a "final sweep" before you take the car off the rack, to double check things.

If you're using a pry bar instead of the Kent-Moore tool, and you go too far negative on the camber, all you have to do is run the jacks under the cross member, loosen the bolts, lift the car a tad, and push the a-arm back in, snug the bolts, and start again...

 

Well now I have different specs and the car handles better. He showed me on their machine where the wheels were sitting completely flat at zero actually came out to be .3 camber and cross camber of -0.1 The caster is 4.4 L and 4.1 R. Toe is at 0. The camber he showed me was making the tire ride on it's edge with the -.1 so it would wear in the inside. They swear this will not make my tires wear on the outside. Their machine shows the footprints of the tire which was great to see how the tire was flat on the road.

 

chk PM
Johnny

 

The last alignment I got done the tech says the caster will not go up any higher than 4.1 on the right side. Even though the alignments I have received from the other 2 shops were 4.4 on that side. With an even lower camber number than I have now. They are certain they cannot dial in any more on that side. So now it isn't within specs from the factory and it doesn't do as well as it did on the corning on the off ramps on the interstate. I drive mostly highway so I don't know if the low number will be a problem.

 

As you already recognize, your caster isn't within even the factory spec, let alone some "high caster" setting, done for high speed stability. Therefore, assuming the alignment racks that your car has been on are remotely calibrated, I hate to do this, but have to ask...Has your car ever been wrecked, curbed, or some other damage been done to the front K-member?

As I mentioned before, while I'm currently running at 5 degrees caster on my LF, and 5.5 degrees on my RF, I previously had it set at 6 and 5.5 degrees respectively, without having to resort to any unusual "stunts" to get those numbers. Any chance your LCA bushings are shot, and nobody has seen this?

The "low" caster settings will give you a little less straight line stability at speed....

 

As far as I know it has not been wrecked or curbed. I am real careful with my car. It was set at 4.6 and 4.4 a few weeks ago. I took it to another alignment shop today just to have them listen to a popping noise in the front end that I now have. He heard it right away and he says the rack and pinion is internally damaged and has play in it. I am going back to the Goodyear place where I got the last alignment and he said he wanted to look at the caster and camber himself on his machine and see what he can do. His tech is on vacation. The problem is this is the place I got two wheels on the lips pressed in from those adapters. I showed him and we looked at the spades and he said they were not touching the lips. Somehow I have to make sure when I take it back to him we can make sure the spades are not touching.