Front End Alignment Nightmare!
It is a steering wheel shimmy back and forth.
Let me ask this guys when I jacked my car up in the front and left the key out of the car so the steering wheel should be locked and then I placed my hands at 9 and 3 0'clock and rocked it back and forth with not a lot of effort it will move a little bit and on the drivers side it makes a clicking noise. Passenger side is quiet but moves the exact amount of distance. Is this a bad thing that it moves some? How much movement is not right? At 12 and 6 it does not move at all with little effort only at 9 and 3.
Let me ask this guys when I jacked my car up in the front and left the key out of the car so the steering wheel should be locked and then I placed my hands at 9 and 3 0'clock and rocked it back and forth with not a lot of effort it will move a little bit and on the drivers side it makes a clicking noise. Passenger side is quiet but moves the exact amount of distance. Is this a bad thing that it moves some? How much movement is not right? At 12 and 6 it does not move at all with little effort only at 9 and 3.
I would suggest unlocking the steering wheel and doing the same test. Have someone else look to see if anything is moving when you move it "9 and 3", the rack could actually be moving, if all that **** is new the only excuse would be that the rack is moving in its mounts. If the rack its self isnt moving it would normally be tierods but in this case i dont know.
If I unlock the steering wheel and do the 9 and 3 o'clock test isn't everything going to move because I will be forcing the steering wheel to move?
Is there anything that I could be missing that he could have done wrong when installing the rack like I read something about preload adjustment. This is a shop that has been open for 40 years but he won't help me. He says he doesn't see anything wrong with the front end.
Is there anything that I could be missing that he could have done wrong when installing the rack like I read something about preload adjustment. This is a shop that has been open for 40 years but he won't help me. He says he doesn't see anything wrong with the front end.
Last edited by chevygirl; Jun 6, 2009 at 08:43 AM.
Yes, If you unlock the steering wheel, The wheels will move if you push and pull at 9 and 3. Theres gotta be someone on this site that lives next to you that can help you out. You dont know anybody that has good mechanical skills? Neighbor, friend, family, friend of friend? Nobody? Thats kind of hard to believe.
I have called several mechanics (retired guys) and they said it sounded like a bad tire. Since I have tried 2 sets I am trying to make sure there isn't anything else it can be. I have taken it to 3 shops that have inspected it. I get a different opinion every where I go. Everyone around here makes low pay and they don't care.
It seems that on the drivers side when going over speed bumps or bumps of any kind that it has a loose feeling and sometimes makes a little click noise. It does not do this on the pass. side. It just doesn't feel tight to me like it did a few months ago.
The steering wheel shimmy will get worse and get better at different times such as rougher roads seem to get it to really going on the highway if it isn't smooth. It is off and on. It always does it a little over 55 but can be better or worse at times.
I am going back to the tire place Monday to see if they can find something wrong with the tires.
It seems that on the drivers side when going over speed bumps or bumps of any kind that it has a loose feeling and sometimes makes a little click noise. It does not do this on the pass. side. It just doesn't feel tight to me like it did a few months ago.
The steering wheel shimmy will get worse and get better at different times such as rougher roads seem to get it to really going on the highway if it isn't smooth. It is off and on. It always does it a little over 55 but can be better or worse at times.
I am going back to the tire place Monday to see if they can find something wrong with the tires.
It seems that on the drivers side when going over speed bumps or bumps of any kind that it has a loose feeling and sometimes makes a little click noise. It does not do this on the pass. side. It just doesn't feel tight to me like it did a few months ago.
The steering wheel shimmy will get worse and get better at different times such as rougher roads seem to get it to really going on the highway if it isn't smooth. It is off and on. It always does it a little over 55 but can be better or worse at times.
The steering wheel shimmy will get worse and get better at different times such as rougher roads seem to get it to really going on the highway if it isn't smooth. It is off and on. It always does it a little over 55 but can be better or worse at times.
And to answer your other question if you unlock the steering wheel everything will move, but not much and i find it easier to feel the play compared to the proper movement. Also if the rack is moving, i dont think locking the steering column would allow enough movement for you to see, i could be wrong on that one i guess. But i always leave it unlocked.
The rack is not moving at all. With it locked or unlocked, running or not jacked up in the air both sides move and the inner tie rods are moving in and out and you can see the bellows moving in and out. The popping noise I can make it do it by turning the steering wheel all the way to the left and when it reaches the stop point it does it every time. I can make it do it sometimes when I stop and when I take off, and driving into a parking place. So it will do it sitting still or not. I had a friend try to help me yesterday with looking around and he didn't stay long so I did not get to try to pinpoint the noise yet.
I still have air in my power steering system too I guess because it still pulsates when I turn the steering wheel and makes noises I have never heard before. He said that the air would go away and the steering would stop doing that but it has been 5 days now so I don't know. He said there was no way of getting the air out of the system. Again this guy works at an alignment shop and has done alot of rack and pinions but he still might be wrong.
I still have air in my power steering system too I guess because it still pulsates when I turn the steering wheel and makes noises I have never heard before. He said that the air would go away and the steering would stop doing that but it has been 5 days now so I don't know. He said there was no way of getting the air out of the system. Again this guy works at an alignment shop and has done alot of rack and pinions but he still might be wrong.
.......I still have air in my power steering system too I guess because it still pulsates when I turn the steering wheel and makes noises I have never heard before. He said that the air would go away and the steering would stop doing that but it has been 5 days now so I don't know. He said there was no way of getting the air out of the system. Again this guy works at an alignment shop and has done alot of rack and pinions but he still might be wrong.
Stop car, tighten power steering cap, lower car.
I did what you said last night with some help from my dad and we saw air bubbles but we did not have the car running at the time. I can do it again with the car running to see what it does. I was going by the directions on shbox.com to bleed the system.
It actually seems worse since I did that last night. I can try it running with the cap off. I just want to make sure nothing is wrong with the new rack or since he filled the pump full that it hasn't messed up my pump.
So for the air to come out the cap has to be off and what he said about it just finding it's way out as I am driving is not right?
It actually seems worse since I did that last night. I can try it running with the cap off. I just want to make sure nothing is wrong with the new rack or since he filled the pump full that it hasn't messed up my pump.
So for the air to come out the cap has to be off and what he said about it just finding it's way out as I am driving is not right?
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Verdad Gallardo If it still pops after you bleed the system, you need to get the car on a drive on rack, and have somebody under the car while you turn the steering wheel to make it pop, if its coming from the front end it will be easy to pinpoint since you can reproduce the noise. I'd listen to the balljoints to make sure.
Well today I went back to the alignment shop and they could hear the noise but can't tell where it is coming from. They were under the car while I turned the wheel. It is on the drivers side for sure. They said it could take weeks for the air to get out of the system. They said maybe the balljoints would fix the steering wheel shimmy but no guarantees. They said the popping could be one of the lca bushing has shifted since the alignment. They still want to blame the tires so I went and traded in the Hankook tires today for Michelin Pilot and they ride like crap. They are alot harsher ride and I still have the steering wheel shimmy. So they are going back to the tire place to get the Hankook tires back. I have had now Goodyear Eagle F1 GS tires with my GM SS ZR1's, the Hankook tires with my old silver Z28 wheels and Michelin tires with my old silver Z28 wheels. 5 different places have checked balance on the Goodyear tires also and yes the goodyears were road balanced several times.
Now I am down to this. Maybe replacing balljoints and maybe lca bushings since I am sure all the crap has to come off the car anyway to do the balljoints. The $$$$ is racking up quick.
Now I am down to this. Maybe replacing balljoints and maybe lca bushings since I am sure all the crap has to come off the car anyway to do the balljoints. The $$$$ is racking up quick.
I went back this morning and swapped back the tires. Thank goodness except for damage to my wheels I got that done. I just have to figure out now which parts to repalce. I might have a bad new rack and pinion who knows? Yesterday they just stared at the front end and did not pull or push on the tires or anything.
If the bushing moved then they didnt tighten it down all the way, after all the bolt you loosen to adjust them is what holds them in place.
If they told you the bushings were good before, are they now telling you the bushings are bad? I'm confused.
The owner is telling me you really can't tell about the balljoints until you take them off the car and the lca bushings he says might have shifted during the alignment and it may be making that noise I am hearing. When I go over railroad tracks now it still jerks the steering wheel. It never did that before. It sounds and feels loose.
He said they charge 3 hours labor to do the balljoints both sides and they really can't say what is the problem.
He said they charge 3 hours labor to do the balljoints both sides and they really can't say what is the problem.
The new rack and pinion came with the inner tie rod ends already new also and he replaced the outer tie rod ends as well. I still have scrubbing on the outside of my tires as well that I thought might be a clue since my alignment has been checked my numerous places with a 0 toe.
Went I go over bumps especially railroad tracks slow the steering wheel will feel loose when I go over the bumps and it jerks some. It sounds like something is loose as well. That all started after I had an numerous alignments done.
I don't know if I got a bad new rack and pinion or not. When I took it back they didn't do much checking. They were trying to find the popping noise but didn't check anything to see if it was loose. Just stood there and said I don't know.
Went I go over bumps especially railroad tracks slow the steering wheel will feel loose when I go over the bumps and it jerks some. It sounds like something is loose as well. That all started after I had an numerous alignments done.
I don't know if I got a bad new rack and pinion or not. When I took it back they didn't do much checking. They were trying to find the popping noise but didn't check anything to see if it was loose. Just stood there and said I don't know.
The new rack and pinion came with the inner tie rod ends already new also and he replaced the outer tie rod ends as well. I still have scrubbing on the outside of my tires as well that I thought might be a clue since my alignment has been checked my numerous places with a 0 toe.
Went I go over bumps especially railroad tracks slow the steering wheel will feel loose when I go over the bumps and it jerks some. It sounds like something is loose as well. That all started after I had an numerous alignments done.
I don't know if I got a bad new rack and pinion or not. When I took it back they didn't do much checking. They were trying to find the popping noise but didn't check anything to see if it was loose. Just stood there and said I don't know.
Went I go over bumps especially railroad tracks slow the steering wheel will feel loose when I go over the bumps and it jerks some. It sounds like something is loose as well. That all started after I had an numerous alignments done.
I don't know if I got a bad new rack and pinion or not. When I took it back they didn't do much checking. They were trying to find the popping noise but didn't check anything to see if it was loose. Just stood there and said I don't know.
So to affirm:
When you go over bumps the steering wheel is loose and moving back and forth on its own?
Have you checked to see that the bushings are in good condition and fully seated into the control arms? Are the metal retainers of the bushings crushed in any way (mebbe from alignment abuse....)?
Are the shocks good?
The wheels/tires are hard to feel when checking for play on the 12 6 and 3 9. There will be some movement at the 3 9 even with the wheel locked. Should be almost none at the 12 6. If it is slightly moving where you are putting a lot of force than that is the bushings and normal. If it moves slightly then takes resistance looks like it is time for a new wheel bearing.
You can replace the wheel bearing for 99 dollars at o reilys if u install yourself. your left might be bad if it is clicking.
Ball joints probably aren't bad unless you have over 120k miles and hot rodded the **** out of it.
What are the specs on the alignment?
Last edited by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed; Jun 10, 2009 at 11:25 AM.
The car has a completely different feel going over bumps since one of the alignments. It moves the steering wheel back and forth and it sounds loose up front. Just not solid like before.
The shocks are not leaking and they both pass the bounce test.
poping noise is when the car has a load on it moving forward or stopping or moving the wheel to the left. Sounds like the drivers side.
The lca bushings I can't tell about. One of the places told me that one of the rear front lca bushing was needing replacement if I wanted to make anymore adjustments on the alignment but the place installing the rack said they didn't see any problems. But now they say maybe the noise is in the bushing and their alignment pushed it to where metal is hitting.
I have not been able to do the 12 and 6 test with must one side jacked up on the lca yet to see. The shop was suppose to check. One guy says they can't tell and the other says they look fine. I can pull the steering wheel slightly when it is shimming and it seems to help but the bumps and grooves on the interstate really can get it to moving more than smooth roads do.
I have had alot of alignments lately trying to solve a scuffing on the outside of the tires and some places not knowing what they are doing but the last alignment last week was .1+ camber both sides, 4.5 caster both, 0 toe
The shocks are not leaking and they both pass the bounce test.
poping noise is when the car has a load on it moving forward or stopping or moving the wheel to the left. Sounds like the drivers side.
The lca bushings I can't tell about. One of the places told me that one of the rear front lca bushing was needing replacement if I wanted to make anymore adjustments on the alignment but the place installing the rack said they didn't see any problems. But now they say maybe the noise is in the bushing and their alignment pushed it to where metal is hitting.
I have not been able to do the 12 and 6 test with must one side jacked up on the lca yet to see. The shop was suppose to check. One guy says they can't tell and the other says they look fine. I can pull the steering wheel slightly when it is shimming and it seems to help but the bumps and grooves on the interstate really can get it to moving more than smooth roads do.
I have had alot of alignments lately trying to solve a scuffing on the outside of the tires and some places not knowing what they are doing but the last alignment last week was .1+ camber both sides, 4.5 caster both, 0 toe
So I just need to put a jack stand under the control arm and to keep the other side from raising off the ground I can use some boards under the tire. I tried to jack the control arm with the jack but I didn't like the way it sounded when I started jacking it up so I will try using the crossmember and slide the jack stand under the control arm.