josh99ta

iTrader: (1)

I'm interested for sure. Shoot me a PM with your bottom dollar. If the price is right I'll give them a shot for sure. I've always liked the look of DMS cars and I hear the ride is nice with the progressive rates.

pjb

iTrader: (2)

lets see pix of the new wheels/tires.

pjb

iTrader: (2)

does anybody know if the original DMS springs are the same as the current Granatelli's?

mastercoryd

iTrader: (3)

wow, this is good i always thought it was terrible idea to cut springs but seeing as where in it handled ok with stock springs if i got a pair of atermarket and wnated it a bit lower just trimming alittle bit off i bet would handle really well and give me the desired height i wanted without getting shitty sportlines lol

pjb

iTrader: (2)

josh99ta

iTrader: (1)

I'm still working on the stuff up front but I think the Sportlines would give you more rate in the front and would be better if you're going for that much of a drop. In the rear you'd have more rate with properly cut stock springs than the Sportline rear springs.


They are one in the same. Same build company and same drop.

josh99ta

iTrader: (1)

So I've been doing little things here and there. Figured I'd update this post a little since I got quite a bit accomplished.

Did a lot with the rear suspension. Cut another 1/4 coil off for a total of 1.75 coils cut. Rear ride height sits right at 26.5" (level with the front). I'm going to cut another 1/4 coil off the front to bring the front down into the 26-26.25" range for a slight rake. Also installed my APHR and got the rear centered, slightly rolled the rear fender lips to prevent any rubbing just in case, pulled the SS bumpstops and replaced them with more progressive Z28 bumpstops, and pulled the DeCrapons and put the Bilstein HDs in. Now the car rides and handles VERY nicely. It's on par with the old TA's suspension with stock springs, Koni SAs, and the hose mod. It's just lower, looks better, and costed me FAR less money. Mission accomplished!

Picked up the upper spring/shock mounts for the front suspension that I'm going to modify, and got my Koni 40mm soft progressive bumpstops in the garage also. I'm going to work on modifying the upper mounts ASAP so that I can hurry up and get the front Bilstein shocks and Koni 40mm bumpstops in and the springs trimmed down just a touch more, then off to get it aligned. It should get me a little lower up front, gain me significantly more suspension travel, handle considerably better, and ride MUCH nicer. Win-win-win.

pjb

iTrader: (2)

before anyone follows this game plan you may want to read this:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...uspension.html

josh99ta

iTrader: (1)

Point being?

Do you have some kind of problem with my suspension setup? Well guess what, it's my suspension, not yours. You're more than welcome to run the most expensive springs and shocks you can get your hands on. I'll go this route, save a ton of money, and get better results from what I personally want from the car. This suspension will come out down the road and I'll be going with a full air setup all around (great ride, great stance, good handling). I'll gladly give up handling for a better ride and stance on a daily driven car. What I'm running now is still better for ride and handling that the hundreds of people in F-Bodies running QA1 coilovers.

I had cut springs on DeCarbons and regular endlinks before and no clunking whatsoever. Something is off right now. I'll fix it. It doesn't discredit anything I've done thus far.

Honestly, in previous experience with Bilsteins, it very well may be the shocks. I bought them used, so I have no way of verifying they were in proper working order prior to the install. That's why I'm trying to isolate everything possible.

What I will say is this...

Find a good machine shop to cut the upper mounts if you don't do them yourself, and stress to them how important it is that the cut is very precise. I'm about 90% sure that unless there is some slack in the assembly OR since the Bilsteins are threaded all the way to the top and I couldn't cut any off the top of the shock rod and they're hitting the strut towers up top, then the less-than-precision cuts on my upper mounts by the machine shop are at fault here. We'll see though. That's what this is all about, trial and error.

Moral of the story: You're still upset because I thought you were charging too much for your old used springs and didn't buy them. You're a guy, not a chick, stop being butthurt and get over it. And don't take things out of context in an attempt to discredit what someone else is doing. It just makes you look like a jackass.

pjb

iTrader: (2)

no attempt to discredit anyone. I just directed any readers to YOUR OWN posts about this setup, rather then lead people to believe it all turned out great. I hope you do resolve it, and even offered some suggestions in the other thread.

BTW - about the springs, I sold them for a fair price to a happy buyer. He even took the time to post how "like new" they are and how fast he received them. It worked out much better then you telling me "you would practically have to give them to me to get me to take them off your hands".

I can imagine you are frustrated with your setup, but good luck and hang in there, You'll get it right, or if not at least you plan on scrapping the whole thing and going to something else anyway. I hope it turns out well (truly).

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

nice improvement in looks.

JamRWS6

Such is the case with many of these threads. Threads like this are misleading and are a disservice to the community. Thanks to pjb for linking to the other thread w/ all the 'issues' this can cause.

josh99ta

iTrader: (1)

Great post pjb. I didn't see where you were coming from. Everything did turn out great, aside from a little extra noise. I'll get it worked out and it'll all work the way I need it to.

On the springs, things are only worth what someone will pay for them. The sale turned our great on your end. If I were the seller I'd be happy as could be. I think they were $100 springs, but obviously someone thought they were worth a lot more. Heck man, I've been trying to sell this motorcycle helmet for months now. Maybe I need to enlist your selling help!


Misleading and a disservice? The ride and handling are right. I can't even hear it with the radio on, but I like to ride around with the radio off at times, and it's irritating. I am **** retentive when it comes to my car though.

How many times have you turned wrenches and had it come out perfect the first time?

I gutted my cats this past weekend. Turns out the driver's side is partially separated from the flange that connects to the manifold and I have a slight exhaust leak that is irritating me. So by your logic I guess gutted cats are a horrible idea and a disservice to the Tech community?

Dude, give me a break. Issues come up when you're turning wrenches sometimes. You figure it out, fix it, and move on. Results are results.

My ride and handling with cut springs are on par with anything else I've ever had, and better for what I use the car for, just got a small issue I need to iron out. The disservice is posts like yours that can't think outside the box or are so quick to try to rag on someone.

camaroextra

iTrader: (10)

I got what you are saying here, I feel the same way. Iv been rocking KYB's and cut springs for like two years and it handles great. Not perfect, not like it might if I had spend a ton of money, but the benefit I got for what I paid was very worth it.

pjb

iTrader: (2)

no offense to the OP but I think the majority of people would rather not go thru all the headaches and trial and error. Specially when they can simply go with a known good suspension setup, do it one time, still have the ability to return to stock if ever desired, and have a result they love. when you add up all the expense of getting new upper mounts to modify, new bumpstops and whatever else, plus all your hours of labor to take it all apart repeatedly, what are you really saving? seems like not much, if anything at all.
And in the end, if you were to advertise your car for sale and listed all the things you've done I think a buyer would consider your suspension mods a negative. On the other hand, someone who could show Konis and Strano springs has probably added a little value. Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. None of this is directed at the OP, just meant to get all the readers to think about the long run with their mods.

josh99ta

iTrader: (1)

See, there you go again with speaking negatively about this suspension setup.

I've sold a car with Konis, I've sold cars with good springs, etc. Nothing adds value. Look at the FS ads with cars with tens of thousands of extras that go for little more than stock cars go for.

Justify spending your money how you'd like, but I'm long over the days of just throwing money at a car. I'm getting married, I own my own home now, and in general have better uses for my money than sinking it into a car just to have "the best" spring and shock combo, when I've already been there and done that, and hated how the car rode for a daily driver.

I've got little to nothing tied up in the suspension, and the only issue I have is a little noise. Could have happened with Konis and Strano springs too. That's where you're missing my point. You keep downing my suspension setup, when I've already been there and done that with spending tons of money on springs, shocks, coilovers, etc. I'm thinking outside the box here. Come along, or stay at home. But don't come into my thraed where I have a ton of experience in other setups and know exactly what I'm going for, and I'm able to achieve that, and down my setup. Did you know that one of the designers of the 4th Gen F-Body said it's a perfectly acceptable option to cut the stock springs if done properly, and that it would tighten the car up and handle better? I'm betting you didn't, but if you do your research you'll see that he did. So who is to be believed, a bunch of guys on the internet who throw money at their cars and then pat each other on the back to feel better, or an engineer who works with suspensions at all times. Throwing money at a car doesn't make it "better," just ask the guys who throw on Bilsteins valved for stock springs rates and a set of Pro Kit springs. I've been there. Horrible ride quality, horrible stance after they start sagging, and handling that is subpar.

The key is to know what you're getting in to, and to know what to expect in the way or ride quality, handling, etc. I knew going in, because I've had a ton of different suspensions under the three different F-Bodies I've owned.

I have no added expense, nor is it a big deal to turn a few wrenches. If you're not mechanically inclined I'd say you probably don't need to be driving a modified car anyways. Bumpstops should be upgraded on Konis and Stranos or any othe suspension setup IMO, so that cost doesn't factor in. I traded a set of clear turn signals for the upper mounts, so they costs me nothing but freeing up some spare space in the garage. You'd have to put the same amount of labor in to change out the springs and shocks to aftermarket units anyway, so no extra labor has been involved (except having to pull them again, which I've had to do with very expensive Pedders stuff in my GTO before, because of manufacturers defects, so that can happen with the most expensive stuff also). The UMM can be done and is usually done on what you'd consider a "good" suspension setup, and can only benefit any lowered car. Most people won't do it but that doesn't change how beneficial it is. So in the end I haven't spent any more money or done any more work that would be necessary with any other shock/spring combo. And the only thing in this whole setup you could possibly knock is the UMM since it's where the issues I'm having are from, but once it's right my suspension setup will ride better and have more travel than most of the lowered cars out there. It's a worthwhile mod. Just because there is some extra work involved doesn't make it a bad idea or a "disservice to the community." Headers are a PITA to put on, and you can end up with exhaust leaks that you may need to iron out, but that doesn't make them a bad idea.

Don't knock it til you've tried it. Right now I'm speaking from experience, and you're rehashing misinformation, that somehow cut springs are inferior. For what I want they're exactly perfect. If an aftermarket company made 325 lbs springs for the front that fit on standard shocks, and 145 lbs springs for the rear, you wouldn't bash that setup (although the rates might be a little lighter than you prefered). Cutting the springs is no different than running softer rate springs. Do you not understand that or do you have some other misconception about what a spring does under a car?

pjb

iTrader: (2)

I have nothing against you cutting your springs. I wouldn't because I like to have all the original parts to my vehicles, in case I ever want to return to all stock/original. That and there are good springs that will give me a known result, rather then the trial and error cutting method.
I never put down your setup at all. I merely linked YOUR OWN 2 threads because the second one contradicted the first one that left people thinking all was great.

You mention all the things that would be better uses for your money, well don't you think some of those things would call for better uses of your time also?? keep chasing it, and look at my suggestions in the other thread to help your current problem. Its really not personal at all, just trying to keep everyone fully informed so they can learn from your experiences.

pjb

iTrader: (2)

I've had numerous suspensions under my previous F-Bodies and none of them rode the way I'd want a daily driver to ride. The only one I liked was the stock springs on Konis



in general have better uses for my money than sinking it into a car just to have "the best" spring and shock combo, when I've already been there and done that, and hated how the car rode for a daily driver.


which one of YOUR previous statements above would you stand behind?

JamRWS6

Turn wrenches? How do you think those parts got on my car? I put them on.

The difference between myself and you is I did my research and knew what I was getting into upfront. If you don't care then that is your prerogative. The casual user looking for info on here wants to know what works and not how you can hack every piece of the suspension to end up at a result that works OK but completely destroys the value of the car. At the end of the day stock parts can easily be put back on a car w/ a recommended setup on here rather than the "i can't go back because i cut it all up" setup you are going to end up with.

No one is giving you crap for cutting your springs....the fact that you are trying to make it seem like something it isn't is the problem. For your one story of liking cut springs there are a ton more that hated they wasted their time. If they like cut springs most likely they don't know better.

The rate of stock springs is designed to handle the weight of the car w/ the given amount of suspension travel. When you decrease that travel you need a higher rate in the spring.....and a LOT more than the 5-15lb rate increase you got by cutting them.

A better setup for all of this is stock springs on Konis on the lower perch. It will out-ride and outhandle what you are going to end up with. Regardless, hack away. Best of luck to you.

josh99ta

iTrader: (1)

Why are they mutually exclusive? They aren't. They are both true. I've had three different F-Bodies, a GTO, an Integra, a Neon, a truck, a Civic, a Fox body, and a motorcycle over the 10 year period of time I've been in this hobby. In the past I threw money at my car. I've had Konis, I've had Bilsteins, I've had KYBs, I've had Eibachs, I've had HAL QA1s, BMRs, LG G2 Supersprings, a few other setups I'm probably forgetting, and that's just in the F-Bodies I've owned. If you consider the GTO and the Integra that list expands even further. The only setups that rode the way I wanted was Konis with stock springs for F-bodies and the Pedders setup for the GTO. Everything else rode like garbage. Even with different springs on the Konis, setup similar to what everyone in here loves, I didn't like the ride for a daily driver because the spring rates were too firm. From all of those I know what I want in the way of ride and handling. There isn't an aftermarket setup out there that can accomplish it, save airbag springs. I know that from first hand experience. And that is just MY experience, not all the different setups I've ridden in. Do you know what you're talking about from first hand experience? How many different spring/shocks combinations have you had in your own car and have extensive experience with?

Stock springs are dirt cheap. I've got numerous sets of stock F-body springs lying around in the basement from previous setups I've pulled between the multiple F-Bodies I've owned. It wouldn't be anything to return my car to 100% stock at any time I wanted to.

How did you do your research? By reading on the internet, or riding in and driving different suspension setups extensively. As I've already said, I've had a ton of different suspensions setups in F-bodies and other cars too. Clocked well over 200,000 miles between them all. My research is based on extensive personal first hand experience. What is yours based on? Is it based on what you read on the internet, what everyone else says is a "good" suspension setup, or from first hand experience?

I'm making it out to seem like exactly what it is. Did you read? I've already said this isn't the most stiffly sprung car or the best handling setup. I daily drive it. I didn't want stiff. I wanted a more compliant ride, that bumped up the handling a little bit, and had a better stance. Mission accomplished. I thought that has been pretty clear through the entire thread. If you want a stiff, super sporty ride, this setup isn't for you. It'll be too soft.

The first statement is obviously true. So is the second. My travel decreased, but by doing the UMM I increased my suspension travel. For example...

Stock springs + stock upper mounts = 6" of travel
Cut springs + upper mount mod = 5.5" of travel, nearly 2" of lowering
Lowering springs + stock upper mounts = 4.5" or travel, but more rate to keep it from bottoming out, but with more rate also comes a stiffer ride

So I've actually probably got MORE suspension travel than you do. See where I'm coming from yet?

Been there, done that. It's the only F-Body suspension setup I liked, and what was on my '99 Trans Am for the longest, and what was on it when I sold it. But it wasn't without problems. It didn't lower the car enough for me, and I didn't need that much dampening because I kept the Konis on full soft 100% of the time I was on the street (only dialed them up when I went autocrossing). Since I have direct, first hand experience with what the suspension setup you told me would be better for me, I'll compare it to what I have now, IN MY OPINION.

Konis, lower perch, hose mod, stock springs all around, all else stock
Ride Quality: 10 with Konis on full soft (well, 10 as in as good as a F-Body can get, these cars aren't Lexuses)
Handling: 5 with Konis on full soft, 7 with Konis dialed up (more spring rate would have helped)
Stance: 3 (barely better than stock, not nearly low enough)
Overall Value: 2. What Konis cost isn't a secret. I felt for what I wanted out of a suspension it was too much money invested especially for the fact that I hated the stance.
Total: 20 out of 40 possible points, with the main knocks being the stance being too high and the value being out of whack IMO. Take it down to ride and handling only and it's 15 out of a possible 20.

Cut stock springs, Bilsteins, UMM, upgraded bumpstops all around
Ride Quality: 8 (feels identical to how the Konis felt dialed up about 25%)
Handling: 6 (handles better than Konis at full soft, not as good as Konis dialed up, about like Konis at 25%, this could be attributed to a number of variables though such as alignment, sway bar endlinks, etc)
Stance: 10 (the car sits perfectly where I want it to, it's low but not too low)
Overall Value: 8 (it wasn't free, otherwise it would be a 10, but considering I got the Bilsteins used, I've got less in my springs/shocks/mounts/bumps than most people spend on Strano springs)
Total: 32 out of 40 possible points, mainly because the stance is exactly where I want it to be, and because the value is really high. Take that away down to ride and handling only and it's 14 out of a possible 20, only one point behind the Konis + stock spring setup, not too bad IMO. And since it's so much better in terms of stance and value I can stand to give up just a teeny tiny touch in ride/handling.

So basically this setup rides and handles really close to the setup you told me would outride and outhandle what I currently have. That coming from my own first hand experience. The only real difference is the ride height, because I have slightly less travel on this setup even with the UMM, than I had with stock springs and Konis on the lower perch, and only manifests itself over really bad road imperfections. Otherwise I honestly can't tell much of a difference in the two. One just cost me 1/4 the price of the other. And like I said, I've got time to do some wrenching, but better things to spend my money on. With all that being said, this setup couldn't be better for ME and what I want on MY car. It's not for everyone. Never said it was. I'm not trying to push anyone else to do it. I'm just putting the info out there, because I was once the kind of person to drop tons of money on the "best" parts and try to convince myself I liked them, because everyone else did, but in actuality I really wasn't happy with the results.

Anything else that isn't clear?