Big Brake converson on non ABS car. Oxymoron?
04-19-2010, 01:18 AM
#1
Big Brake converson on non ABS car. Oxymoron? I am real close to doing my brake conversion on my 71 but im now wondering will it really do me any good. The ABS systems on the newer vehicles such as z06's c6 etc. etc. optimize and allow the bigger multi piston calipers to perform as they do. Something tells me however installing a 6 piston caliper on the front of my car without abs will be like putting a big red shiny e-brake on it. All tire screaching and no stop. Would this conversion wind up being all looks and minimal function.
Forgive me if im wrong
Forgive me if im wrong
Last edited by Camaro Ken; 04-19-2010 at 01:20 AM. Reason: Misspelled words
04-19-2010, 10:11 PM
#2
Its not that you are wrong, you're just misinterpreting how the system will perform.
You are correct about locking up the wheels - even the stock brakes can probably lock the wheels up at speed, in which case larger brakes provide no benefit in that case.
Where the larger brakes come in is when the wheels aren't locked up. When you are on the threshhold of lockup (tires chirping but not locked, decelerating from higher speed, ect) the larger brakes will be able to provide more stopping force, heat dissipation, and fade resistance than the stock brakes.
Ideally you never want to lock the brakes up, so as long as you use the proper pedal modulation, larger brakes will still provide a nice benefit. You don't apply full brake pressure every time you slow down or stop, and thats there the larger brakes will really make the difference, less effort with better and more consistant stopping power.
You are correct about locking up the wheels - even the stock brakes can probably lock the wheels up at speed, in which case larger brakes provide no benefit in that case.
Where the larger brakes come in is when the wheels aren't locked up. When you are on the threshhold of lockup (tires chirping but not locked, decelerating from higher speed, ect) the larger brakes will be able to provide more stopping force, heat dissipation, and fade resistance than the stock brakes.
Ideally you never want to lock the brakes up, so as long as you use the proper pedal modulation, larger brakes will still provide a nice benefit. You don't apply full brake pressure every time you slow down or stop, and thats there the larger brakes will really make the difference, less effort with better and more consistant stopping power.
04-19-2010, 11:04 PM
#3
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I had a second gen Z-28; I loved the car, however the brakes were terribly inadequate for the cars speed capabilities and wieght.
I do not think you could go wrong trying to improve the braking system on your 71. You must notice an incredible difference in the braking feel between the 71 and the 96; think about how much more fun it would be to drive the old girl (and safer) if she had more modern brakes.
I am not sure what your upgrade plans include, but since you are concerned about wheel lock-up you may need to use an ajustable proportioning valve to properly bias the front and rear brakes, also, tires play a huge part in the performance of any braking system.
Good Luck.
I do not think you could go wrong trying to improve the braking system on your 71. You must notice an incredible difference in the braking feel between the 71 and the 96; think about how much more fun it would be to drive the old girl (and safer) if she had more modern brakes.
I am not sure what your upgrade plans include, but since you are concerned about wheel lock-up you may need to use an ajustable proportioning valve to properly bias the front and rear brakes, also, tires play a huge part in the performance of any braking system.
Good Luck.
04-20-2010, 09:46 PM
#4
Its not that you are wrong, you're just misinterpreting how the system will perform.
You are correct about locking up the wheels - even the stock brakes can probably lock the wheels up at speed, in which case larger brakes provide no benefit in that case.
Where the larger brakes come in is when the wheels aren't locked up. When you are on the threshhold of lockup (tires chirping but not locked, decelerating from higher speed, ect) the larger brakes will be able to provide more stopping force, heat dissipation, and fade resistance than the stock brakes.
Ideally you never want to lock the brakes up, so as long as you use the proper pedal modulation, larger brakes will still provide a nice benefit. You don't apply full brake pressure every time you slow down or stop, and thats there the larger brakes will really make the difference, less effort with better and more consistant stopping power.
You are correct about locking up the wheels - even the stock brakes can probably lock the wheels up at speed, in which case larger brakes provide no benefit in that case.
Where the larger brakes come in is when the wheels aren't locked up. When you are on the threshhold of lockup (tires chirping but not locked, decelerating from higher speed, ect) the larger brakes will be able to provide more stopping force, heat dissipation, and fade resistance than the stock brakes.
Ideally you never want to lock the brakes up, so as long as you use the proper pedal modulation, larger brakes will still provide a nice benefit. You don't apply full brake pressure every time you slow down or stop, and thats there the larger brakes will really make the difference, less effort with better and more consistant stopping power.
Haa! Come on man give me soooome credit. I really appreciate everyones feedback. But I do understand braking and how it works. The question is how much of a part does the abs system alone play. The way all of you guy's responses are it seems ABS must only kick in when the brakes are locked and release it accordingly... btw I have only put about 3 miles on my camaro up to this point. From the house to the exhaust shop.
04-20-2010, 10:01 PM
#5
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To reference your original post though, the proper retrofitting of the brake systems you mentioned earlier is actually mostly relevant of the hydraulic system bias, which doesn't need to have "ABS" or "EBD" per se.
04-21-2010, 03:25 PM
#6
Proper brake bias is the primary requirement so you are not locking up either the front or rears prematurely. Once that is correct, ABS is primarily for those that cannot drive & lock the brakes in a panic situation. On dry pavement, ABS is often too conservative.
On irregular surfaces or wet/icy conditions, ABS can be a benefit, as it can modulate the brakes faster than you can.
Personally I would not add ABS to a car that did not have it. Get a good proportioning valve for the rear brakes & set it so they do not lock up upon hard braking. Remember over 70% of stopping power is from the fronts.
On irregular surfaces or wet/icy conditions, ABS can be a benefit, as it can modulate the brakes faster than you can.
Personally I would not add ABS to a car that did not have it. Get a good proportioning valve for the rear brakes & set it so they do not lock up upon hard braking. Remember over 70% of stopping power is from the fronts.
