Bilsteins or KYB AGX on 02 WS6?
01-30-2012, 05:15 PM
#22
A few points:
1. Shocks work every foot of that 200 miles.
2. Monroe has some ok shocks, and some that suck. And Sensatrac's suck. Note I sell Monroe, KYB, Bilstein, Koni and Tokico all.
3. Supporting your country is great and all, but part of it is making something that's useful. I'd also point out that if you are driving a 4th gen F-body, then you are driving a car that was built in Canada, not the USA. So why aren't you driving a Mustang or a Corvette?
1. Shocks work every foot of that 200 miles.
2. Monroe has some ok shocks, and some that suck. And Sensatrac's suck. Note I sell Monroe, KYB, Bilstein, Koni and Tokico all.
3. Supporting your country is great and all, but part of it is making something that's useful. I'd also point out that if you are driving a 4th gen F-body, then you are driving a car that was built in Canada, not the USA. So why aren't you driving a Mustang or a Corvette?
blah blah that's our problem now is because people think like you. You probably shop at Wal-Mart too! lol lol
01-30-2012, 05:31 PM
#23
Wow, you see this is the kind of thing that gets me all worked up. You don't know that, in fact you are either assuming, or just trying to be difficult, maybe both.
Here's the deal. I make more on Monroe than KYB, and for *THIS CAR* I'd recommend even the KYB over the Monroe. Surprise. Now here's a bigger one, for trucks, I've not been happy with the Bilstein's lately, and moved to a <drum roll please> specific Monroe for those. If it was about cost and profit margin I certainly wouldn't have done that....
Our problem is people like you who stick their heads in the sand. I generally don't. I usually shop at the grocery store next door to my shop. And it's pretty funny to hear you go on about this, because Summit and those mega-places are the most guilty of price gouging the little guy (of which I'm one).
Now, here's where I get to paint you for the ignorant person you are. Why don't I like the Monroe's for this car? Simple. Any shock that has grooves cut in in the tube to let oil bypass the piston isn't a good design. It's a leak, they are making the shock "ride well" by letting oil go around rather than through the piston. Gee, if it had a good piston, then you'd need not do that. What's more is the biggest issue with the shocks is a lack of control, not too much (at least on rebound) and here they are making a squishy shock. Sensatracs are generally reserved for family trucksters, I don't consider and f-body to be that, but more of a Sports/GT car.
Then again, here I am arguing with the person who things that his shocks really don't work on this 200 mile drive every day. I guess you've figured out how to levitate the car above the road.... And I notice you gloss right over the car built in Canada thing. Did you know it had FRENCH shocks on it stock? I bet your drilled and slotted rotors are made in China too.
Here's the deal. I make more on Monroe than KYB, and for *THIS CAR* I'd recommend even the KYB over the Monroe. Surprise. Now here's a bigger one, for trucks, I've not been happy with the Bilstein's lately, and moved to a <drum roll please> specific Monroe for those. If it was about cost and profit margin I certainly wouldn't have done that....
Our problem is people like you who stick their heads in the sand. I generally don't. I usually shop at the grocery store next door to my shop. And it's pretty funny to hear you go on about this, because Summit and those mega-places are the most guilty of price gouging the little guy (of which I'm one).
Now, here's where I get to paint you for the ignorant person you are. Why don't I like the Monroe's for this car? Simple. Any shock that has grooves cut in in the tube to let oil bypass the piston isn't a good design. It's a leak, they are making the shock "ride well" by letting oil go around rather than through the piston. Gee, if it had a good piston, then you'd need not do that. What's more is the biggest issue with the shocks is a lack of control, not too much (at least on rebound) and here they are making a squishy shock. Sensatracs are generally reserved for family trucksters, I don't consider and f-body to be that, but more of a Sports/GT car.
Then again, here I am arguing with the person who things that his shocks really don't work on this 200 mile drive every day. I guess you've figured out how to levitate the car above the road.... And I notice you gloss right over the car built in Canada thing. Did you know it had FRENCH shocks on it stock? I bet your drilled and slotted rotors are made in China too.
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01-30-2012, 08:48 PM
#25
From a person who has had both ...now back to our regular program...
I had KYB AGX shocks on my prior LT1 and I'm running Bilsteins on my current LS1. For some reason I liked the AGX a little better than the Bils but I think part of the reason was it was fun tinkering with the settings, which I set up for mostly smooth roads. That's not to say that the KYBs handled better because the Bilsteins ride much smoother, especially over bad roads. I like the firmness of the KYB on the highest (lowest?) setting but that doesn't mean they handled better.
As far as quality, visually the Bilsteins seemed to be a higher quality piece, but I didn't have issues with the KYBs for the short time I had them.
In summary, the Bilsteins are probably the best bet, especially since they now cost about the same as KYBs, but I got my KYBs for a great price so I don't regret buying them.
I had KYB AGX shocks on my prior LT1 and I'm running Bilsteins on my current LS1. For some reason I liked the AGX a little better than the Bils but I think part of the reason was it was fun tinkering with the settings, which I set up for mostly smooth roads. That's not to say that the KYBs handled better because the Bilsteins ride much smoother, especially over bad roads. I like the firmness of the KYB on the highest (lowest?) setting but that doesn't mean they handled better.
As far as quality, visually the Bilsteins seemed to be a higher quality piece, but I didn't have issues with the KYBs for the short time I had them.
In summary, the Bilsteins are probably the best bet, especially since they now cost about the same as KYBs, but I got my KYBs for a great price so I don't regret buying them.
01-31-2012, 08:25 AM
#26
...now back to our regular program...
I had KYB AGX shocks on my prior LT1 and I'm running Bilsteins on my current LS1. For some reason I liked the AGX a little better than the Bils but I think part of the reason was it was fun tinkering with the settings, which I set up for mostly smooth roads. That's not to say that the KYBs handled better because the Bilsteins ride much smoother, especially over bad roads. I like the firmness of the KYB on the highest (lowest?) setting but that doesn't mean they handled better.
As far as quality, visually the Bilsteins seemed to be a higher quality piece, but I didn't have issues with the KYBs for the short time I had them.
In summary, the Bilsteins are probably the best bet, especially since they now cost about the same as KYBs, but I got my KYBs for a great price so I don't regret buying them.
I had KYB AGX shocks on my prior LT1 and I'm running Bilsteins on my current LS1. For some reason I liked the AGX a little better than the Bils but I think part of the reason was it was fun tinkering with the settings, which I set up for mostly smooth roads. That's not to say that the KYBs handled better because the Bilsteins ride much smoother, especially over bad roads. I like the firmness of the KYB on the highest (lowest?) setting but that doesn't mean they handled better.
As far as quality, visually the Bilsteins seemed to be a higher quality piece, but I didn't have issues with the KYBs for the short time I had them.
In summary, the Bilsteins are probably the best bet, especially since they now cost about the same as KYBs, but I got my KYBs for a great price so I don't regret buying them.
When it comes to ride comfort, I choose the Z with the AGXs. To me, it just feels like the Bilsteins have trouble keeping up with the lowering springs. It hits hard on a hard bump, despite fresh bushings and ball joints. I see Bilstein all over this board, and I hear AGXs can blow out at any moment. But maybe I have a placebo effect going on like Cheap Guy and just feel like the adjustment factor makes a difference.
I say AGX, but I maintain that springs are the bigger factor in ride comfort... NOT shocks. I wish I hadn't picked Vogtland
01-31-2012, 12:35 PM
#28
See, now I also HAVE both. I have Bilsteins with Vogtland springs on the front and heater hose modded stock springs on the back on my 2000 B4C. I also have AGXs with Hotchkis springs in the front and heater hose modded stock springs on the back of my 02 Z28. Both have fresh ball joints and nearly identical suspension mods, the major difference being that the B4C has a trans mounted adjustable TA and the Z28 has a tunnel mounted TA.
When it comes to ride comfort, I choose the Z with the AGXs. To me, it just feels like the Bilsteins have trouble keeping up with the lowering springs. It hits hard on a hard bump, despite fresh bushings and ball joints. I see Bilstein all over this board, and I hear AGXs can blow out at any moment. But maybe I have a placebo effect going on like Cheap Guy and just feel like the adjustment factor makes a difference.
I say AGX, but I maintain that springs are the bigger factor in ride comfort... NOT shocks. I wish I hadn't picked Vogtland
When it comes to ride comfort, I choose the Z with the AGXs. To me, it just feels like the Bilsteins have trouble keeping up with the lowering springs. It hits hard on a hard bump, despite fresh bushings and ball joints. I see Bilstein all over this board, and I hear AGXs can blow out at any moment. But maybe I have a placebo effect going on like Cheap Guy and just feel like the adjustment factor makes a difference.
I say AGX, but I maintain that springs are the bigger factor in ride comfort... NOT shocks. I wish I hadn't picked Vogtland
FWIW, that's why my springs aren't the kind of rates that Vogtland production springs use (so much for those that try and slight my springs by saying I just relabel them), they are too stiff both in general, and for more "normal" shocks than Koni to handle.
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02-01-2012, 07:10 AM
#29
I think you are mostly right.... the springs matter here and are what is causing your findings. You aren't getting just a shock comparison because the Vogtland rears are quite a bit stiffer than the Hotchkis rears. Now, with equal or more similar springs you'd see more shock difference.
FWIW, that's why my springs aren't the kind of rates that Vogtland production springs use (so much for those that try and slight my springs by saying I just relabel them), they are too stiff both in general, and for more "normal" shocks than Koni to handle.
FWIW, that's why my springs aren't the kind of rates that Vogtland production springs use (so much for those that try and slight my springs by saying I just relabel them), they are too stiff both in general, and for more "normal" shocks than Koni to handle.
FWIW, I can't wait to get rid of the Vogtlands and switch my B4C to Stranos on the front with my Bilsteins!
02-06-2012, 12:20 PM
#31
If the choice is killer shocks and stock springs vs. aftermarket springs and shocks that are less than ideal, I'd do the killer shock/stock spring thing. And that's coming from someone who makes what are pretty well known to be darn good springs.
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02-06-2012, 01:29 PM
#32
I don't really understand what the crying is about.
It comes down to the simple fact, if majority fbody owners are happy with certain product and reccomend it.
Very big chance, that it actually is a good product for YOUR fbody.
Don't cry about it if you are willing to settle for a cheaper option.
Anyone who is supporting by buying "Made in America"...Congratulations...your car isn't!
It comes down to the simple fact, if majority fbody owners are happy with certain product and reccomend it.
Very big chance, that it actually is a good product for YOUR fbody.
Don't cry about it if you are willing to settle for a cheaper option.
Anyone who is supporting by buying "Made in America"...Congratulations...your car isn't!
02-06-2012, 03:05 PM
#33
I had Tokiko's and KYB AGX's and Bilstein's on my 93Z28 before I sold the car, had to see which shock was the best for me.
Truth be told, the Bilstein's were better, but that doesn't say much for what I wanted my car to do.
I sold the 93Z28 and bought a 2001SS, and I decided to fork over the money and bought the Koni's.
End of story.
PLEASE do yourself a favor and call Sam Strano?
He forgotten more about 4th-gen suspension than we can ever know about 4th-gen suspensions.
Truth be told, the Bilstein's were better, but that doesn't say much for what I wanted my car to do.
I sold the 93Z28 and bought a 2001SS, and I decided to fork over the money and bought the Koni's.
End of story.
PLEASE do yourself a favor and call Sam Strano?
He forgotten more about 4th-gen suspension than we can ever know about 4th-gen suspensions.
02-06-2012, 03:45 PM
#34
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I've owned both Bilsteins and KYB AGX's and I have to say one thing.
Never buy KYB AGX's. Don't be sold on the "adjustability". They are crap shocks and stay good for maybe 10k miles. Bilsteins are in every way a much higher quality shock and are also cheaper. I compared a set of used Bilsteins and a set of used KYB's side by side compressing them, and on every setting, even 8, the KYB's were mush and the rebound was extremely sluggish. And no they were not bad. They're just awful...
Never buy KYB AGX's. Don't be sold on the "adjustability". They are crap shocks and stay good for maybe 10k miles. Bilsteins are in every way a much higher quality shock and are also cheaper. I compared a set of used Bilsteins and a set of used KYB's side by side compressing them, and on every setting, even 8, the KYB's were mush and the rebound was extremely sluggish. And no they were not bad. They're just awful...
02-06-2012, 04:49 PM
#35
I'm sure this will go over like a fart in Church.....
Bilstien's are high pressure gas shocks, KYB's are low pressure shocks. That has nothing to do with valving (Koni's are also low pressure and have the best control of the 3), but it does make the Bilstein's harder to compress by hand.... and the pressure causes the shock to extend much more quickly too (about 3 times faster as it has about 3 times the gas pressure).
In short, that's not a valid comparison. While I agree the Bilstien's are better, it's not for any of the reasons derived from that test, because that "test" isn't valid any way, other than to find out which one is easier to compress by hand, and which extends faster without a 3400 pound car hooked to it at relevant piston speeds.
Bilstien's are high pressure gas shocks, KYB's are low pressure shocks. That has nothing to do with valving (Koni's are also low pressure and have the best control of the 3), but it does make the Bilstein's harder to compress by hand.... and the pressure causes the shock to extend much more quickly too (about 3 times faster as it has about 3 times the gas pressure).
In short, that's not a valid comparison. While I agree the Bilstien's are better, it's not for any of the reasons derived from that test, because that "test" isn't valid any way, other than to find out which one is easier to compress by hand, and which extends faster without a 3400 pound car hooked to it at relevant piston speeds.
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02-06-2012, 05:23 PM
#37
How well do you want it to work, for how long?????? Are the kind of guy that tends to buy something and within months says "I should have just ponied up for the better one"????
Bilstein's work ok with lowering springs. If ok is good enough, then there you go. I want the thing to work as best it can, personally. I can't think of any one running Koni's with springs that opts to run the Koni's in a setting that mimics the Bilstein the most (and they certainly have that option).
Bilstein's work ok with lowering springs. If ok is good enough, then there you go. I want the thing to work as best it can, personally. I can't think of any one running Koni's with springs that opts to run the Koni's in a setting that mimics the Bilstein the most (and they certainly have that option).
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02-06-2012, 06:33 PM
#38
Anyone who is supporting by buying "Made in America"...Congratulations...your car isn't![/QUOTE]
Well I was going to stay out of this but........ya can't seem to leave well enough alone.
I am 8th generation American and yes I buy American whenever I can. Now Canada, we have the same Heritage so i consider them American also. I just Installed my Monroe " Made in America by Americans" They have a Nice Smooth Ride and the BEST Part is that I only have to buy them once! They're Warrenty states that if they wear out just bring them back for a FREE new pair. I drove in a TransAm last week that had Bilstien shocks and I thought that they were rather stiff. So to eack his own.
And yes to ALL of those " Yea Sam you go get him: Grow Up!!
Sam Strano not Bashing you but for you ta say that Monroe "Sucks" thats your Opinion.
Well I was going to stay out of this but........ya can't seem to leave well enough alone.
I am 8th generation American and yes I buy American whenever I can. Now Canada, we have the same Heritage so i consider them American also. I just Installed my Monroe " Made in America by Americans" They have a Nice Smooth Ride and the BEST Part is that I only have to buy them once! They're Warrenty states that if they wear out just bring them back for a FREE new pair. I drove in a TransAm last week that had Bilstien shocks and I thought that they were rather stiff. So to eack his own.
And yes to ALL of those " Yea Sam you go get him: Grow Up!!
Sam Strano not Bashing you but for you ta say that Monroe "Sucks" thats your Opinion.
02-06-2012, 07:26 PM
#39
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and why do you think they suck because your profit margin is not as high???
blah blah that's our problem now is because people think like you. You probably shop at Wal-Mart too! lol lol
blah blah that's our problem now is because people think like you. You probably shop at Wal-Mart too! lol lol
no offense meant whatsoever but telling me to grow up when you openly bash somone whos always out to help it seems is needed to be called out. Sam may be more up front than your used to but hes honest. Thats all that matters to most of us when it comes to spending our hard earned money. An honest opinion
Anyways back to OP's thread. Dont get me wrong I like my AGX's fine. But I also have nothing to compare it to either. I should have listened to everyone and got Bilsteins or saved for Koni's but for now this will do for me just fine. At least till I'm done with all mods I plan on then I might shoot for some Koni's to have something to compare against.
02-07-2012, 12:22 AM
#40
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i cant say anything about agx's because i have never owned them but i did run the stock springs with monroe sensatrack shocks and it was the worst handling f body i have ever driven and my car only has 50k miles on it, hell i drove my buddies 95 z28 and another buddies 2000 v6 car and both rode better an handled better than my car. i just installed a set of Bilstein HD shocks and strano springs and it is a HUGE improvement over the monroe shocks and stock springs, it rides much better and handles much better. with the monroe shocks it was squishy (especially in the rear) and at high speeds the car would float and felt very unsafe. with the bilstein shocks and strano springs the car feels way more planted and feels like i can push the car way harder than i ever could before. so my opinion, get the bilsteins.