Best pad/rotor combo for F-body
07-09-2011, 07:19 PM
#41
I ran Brakemotive rotors and pads on my Camaro. Loved them.
I had the older slotted only design. I'm not a fan of the cross drilling because of possible strucural weakening, but they don't seem to carry slotted only anymore. At the same time, I don't think I've seen any issues with Brakemotive's cross-drilled rotors particularly. And that being said, I'm probably going to pick up a set for my 02 Trailblazer.
I had the older slotted only design. I'm not a fan of the cross drilling because of possible strucural weakening, but they don't seem to carry slotted only anymore. At the same time, I don't think I've seen any issues with Brakemotive's cross-drilled rotors particularly. And that being said, I'm probably going to pick up a set for my 02 Trailblazer.
07-09-2011, 08:39 PM
#42
You should be fine either way you go. Brembo blanks, ATE, Brakemotive, Centric, cross-drilled and slotted, dimpled, etc. Most guys on the street aren't going to beat the hell out of their rotors, and while you might get a little hairline cracking around cross-drilled areas, there's a good chance it won't turn into a problem (although I have seen plenty of cross-drilled rotors that had to be scrapped because the cracks started spiderwebbing to the rest of the rotor).
07-10-2011, 02:10 AM
#43
You should be fine either way you go. Brembo blanks, ATE, Brakemotive, Centric, cross-drilled and slotted, dimpled, etc. Most guys on the street aren't going to beat the hell out of their rotors, and while you might get a little hairline cracking around cross-drilled areas, there's a good chance it won't turn into a problem (although I have seen plenty of cross-drilled rotors that had to be scrapped because the cracks started spiderwebbing to the rest of the rotor).
07-10-2011, 02:25 AM
#44
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I would look into getting a quality set of stainless steel brake likes. I swapped over to slotted rotors, hawk pads, stainless steel lines, and new fluid...it was an amazing difference!!!!!
07-10-2011, 04:49 AM
#46
I have the Brakemotive package on my car.. the pads are still fine but I am wanting something a little more aggressive. I will also be installed the stainless braided lines as well. For those I would suggest you hit up Flynbye.com as he provides everything you need for the install and is cheap.
07-10-2011, 07:59 AM
#47
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I run ATE, Hawk HPS and dot 4 fluid. Very responsive and good enough for the street IMO. I've had powerslot rotors and the stockers and I'm very impressed with the quality and looks of the ATE, plus they have that protective coating on the hubs to prevent rust.
07-10-2011, 12:00 PM
#48
Of course the drilled or slotted or blank thing got stirred up again... I remember a thread a few months back that I posted in that had a lot of information.
It is somewhat tiresome but to throw in a few things just for good measure.
First, there is no such thing as a rotor with cast holes through the surface. Every metal rotor with holes has been drilled. The OEMs will design the vanes and pick the metallurgy keeping in mind that they will be drilled and they have to survive warranty. That is it. They are better than supercheap C/D's but they aren't immune.
Drilled are more likely to crack than blanks. You can crack blanks if you are harsh enough, but it is less likely. This is why most of the road race guys who are not part of huge budget teams are running blanks.
Drilled or slotted probably will have marginally better initial bite than blanks, in wet and dry weather. There is a bit of extra braking torque from the holes or slots. This also does wipe away pad glaze or other junk on the surface. It also leads to decreased pad life, which can be quite significant. Giving the entire balance of rotor and pad life versus cracking, this is why all the big budget teams in sports car racing mandated to run metal rotors have slotted ones (look at the current C6R and others in their class).
What is unclear because of lack of great data is how much different rotor cooling is in a cross drilled rotors. It is clear that they heat faster and to higher temperature (which is only beneficial if you have a pad that requires high temp to function), but the cooling rate and average cooling is probably not really any better. Additionally, it is unlikely that the added surface area inside the holes contributes much to radiating or conducting heat away from the rotor because there is not significant airflow through the holes, and there is potential to disrupt the airflow through the vanes, which are what actually cool the disks.
For a street car just get what is in your budget and what you want. Personally I have stuck with blanks because I'd rather go with durability and put more money in pads or something else. If I ever went to the dark side, I would be tempted to get something like the Hawk Quiet Slot rotors (if they turn out to be good... someone else can be the guinea pig), but probably not drilled ones. The ATE's with their weird atomic slot are proven to be reliable so that is another choice if you don't mind the design.
It is somewhat tiresome but to throw in a few things just for good measure.
First, there is no such thing as a rotor with cast holes through the surface. Every metal rotor with holes has been drilled. The OEMs will design the vanes and pick the metallurgy keeping in mind that they will be drilled and they have to survive warranty. That is it. They are better than supercheap C/D's but they aren't immune.
Drilled are more likely to crack than blanks. You can crack blanks if you are harsh enough, but it is less likely. This is why most of the road race guys who are not part of huge budget teams are running blanks.
Drilled or slotted probably will have marginally better initial bite than blanks, in wet and dry weather. There is a bit of extra braking torque from the holes or slots. This also does wipe away pad glaze or other junk on the surface. It also leads to decreased pad life, which can be quite significant. Giving the entire balance of rotor and pad life versus cracking, this is why all the big budget teams in sports car racing mandated to run metal rotors have slotted ones (look at the current C6R and others in their class).
What is unclear because of lack of great data is how much different rotor cooling is in a cross drilled rotors. It is clear that they heat faster and to higher temperature (which is only beneficial if you have a pad that requires high temp to function), but the cooling rate and average cooling is probably not really any better. Additionally, it is unlikely that the added surface area inside the holes contributes much to radiating or conducting heat away from the rotor because there is not significant airflow through the holes, and there is potential to disrupt the airflow through the vanes, which are what actually cool the disks.
For a street car just get what is in your budget and what you want. Personally I have stuck with blanks because I'd rather go with durability and put more money in pads or something else. If I ever went to the dark side, I would be tempted to get something like the Hawk Quiet Slot rotors (if they turn out to be good... someone else can be the guinea pig), but probably not drilled ones. The ATE's with their weird atomic slot are proven to be reliable so that is another choice if you don't mind the design.
07-10-2011, 12:27 PM
#49
I have the Brakemotive package on my car.. the pads are still fine but I am wanting something a little more aggressive. I will also be installed the stainless braided lines as well. For those I would suggest you hit up Flynbye.com as he provides everything you need for the install and is cheap.
I run ATE, Hawk HPS and dot 4 fluid. Very responsive and good enough for the street IMO. I've had powerslot rotors and the stockers and I'm very impressed with the quality and looks of the ATE, plus they have that protective coating on the hubs to prevent rust.
I'm gonna check these ate rotors out as they seem to get the nod from you guys.
I had no idea this was as debated as it is, as I just thought cross drilled and slotted were better because they were!!!
More internet theory thrown out the window
Of course the drilled or slotted or blank thing got stirred up again... I remember a thread a few months back that I posted in that had a lot of information.
It is somewhat tiresome but to throw in a few things just for good measure.
First, there is no such thing as a rotor with cast holes through the surface. Every metal rotor with holes has been drilled. The OEMs will design the vanes and pick the metallurgy keeping in mind that they will be drilled and they have to survive warranty. That is it. They are better than supercheap C/D's but they aren't immune.
Drilled are more likely to crack than blanks. You can crack blanks if you are harsh enough, but it is less likely. This is why most of the road race guys who are not part of huge budget teams are running blanks.
Drilled or slotted probably will have marginally better initial bite than blanks, in wet and dry weather. There is a bit of extra braking torque from the holes or slots. This also does wipe away pad glaze or other junk on the surface. It also leads to decreased pad life, which can be quite significant. Giving the entire balance of rotor and pad life versus cracking, this is why all the big budget teams in sports car racing mandated to run metal rotors have slotted ones (look at the current C6R and others in their class).
What is unclear because of lack of great data is how much different rotor cooling is in a cross drilled rotors. It is clear that they heat faster and to higher temperature (which is only beneficial if you have a pad that requires high temp to function), but the cooling rate and average cooling is probably not really any better. Additionally, it is unlikely that the added surface area inside the holes contributes much to radiating or conducting heat away from the rotor because there is not significant airflow through the holes, and there is potential to disrupt the airflow through the vanes, which are what actually cool the disks.
For a street car just get what is in your budget and what you want. Personally I have stuck with blanks because I'd rather go with durability and put more money in pads or something else. If I ever went to the dark side, I would be tempted to get something like the Hawk Quiet Slot rotors (if they turn out to be good... someone else can be the guinea pig), but probably not drilled ones. The ATE's with their weird atomic slot are proven to be reliable so that is another choice if you don't mind the design.
It is somewhat tiresome but to throw in a few things just for good measure.
First, there is no such thing as a rotor with cast holes through the surface. Every metal rotor with holes has been drilled. The OEMs will design the vanes and pick the metallurgy keeping in mind that they will be drilled and they have to survive warranty. That is it. They are better than supercheap C/D's but they aren't immune.
Drilled are more likely to crack than blanks. You can crack blanks if you are harsh enough, but it is less likely. This is why most of the road race guys who are not part of huge budget teams are running blanks.
Drilled or slotted probably will have marginally better initial bite than blanks, in wet and dry weather. There is a bit of extra braking torque from the holes or slots. This also does wipe away pad glaze or other junk on the surface. It also leads to decreased pad life, which can be quite significant. Giving the entire balance of rotor and pad life versus cracking, this is why all the big budget teams in sports car racing mandated to run metal rotors have slotted ones (look at the current C6R and others in their class).
What is unclear because of lack of great data is how much different rotor cooling is in a cross drilled rotors. It is clear that they heat faster and to higher temperature (which is only beneficial if you have a pad that requires high temp to function), but the cooling rate and average cooling is probably not really any better. Additionally, it is unlikely that the added surface area inside the holes contributes much to radiating or conducting heat away from the rotor because there is not significant airflow through the holes, and there is potential to disrupt the airflow through the vanes, which are what actually cool the disks.
For a street car just get what is in your budget and what you want. Personally I have stuck with blanks because I'd rather go with durability and put more money in pads or something else. If I ever went to the dark side, I would be tempted to get something like the Hawk Quiet Slot rotors (if they turn out to be good... someone else can be the guinea pig), but probably not drilled ones. The ATE's with their weird atomic slot are proven to be reliable so that is another choice if you don't mind the design.
Your info is what I was looking for exactly, but now I have another brand rotor I have to research before I buy the ones I get.
I have this thing where I have to research every product and item that goes on any car I own. Its kinda a OCD thing and even my buddies tell me I am too picky, but I just like knowing I will be 100% satisfied in myself that I found the best product for my vehicle.
07-10-2011, 01:07 PM
#50
Polyglycol Based DOT3 - Color - Amber | One of the most common finds on the market and have a specific for cars designed for the late 80s period. Although compatible with our CL7/9s should you cannot find the required selected grade, this is not the correct specification to be used from factory recommendation guidelines. DOT3 also absorbs moisture the quickest and has the lowest boiling point and should only strictly be for road use.
Polyglycol Based DOT4 - Color - Amber | The benchmark specifications by the majority of car manufacturers, this is also the specific grade to be used with Hondas/Acura cars regardless of models. DOT4 is designed to absorb moisture slower than DOT3 and has a higher boiling point. This is both suitable for road use and track work. While the OEM Honda DOT4 brake fluid is sufficient for weekend trackdays, meets etc. Using racing specific DOT4 refined brake fluids will increase higher temperature tolerance particularly under hard braking conditions.
Silicone Based DOT5 - Color - Purple | Least common and also the most different from both grades above. DOT5 are primarily designed for cars not equipped with ABS units (Unless otherwise manufacturer specific)and this should not be used unless you're absolutely sure of what you're doing. DOT5 does not absorb moisture and holds the highest boiling point. This brake fluid is not compatible with either categories above and should never be mixed due to it's chemical properties.
Polyglycol Based DOT4 - Color - Amber | The benchmark specifications by the majority of car manufacturers, this is also the specific grade to be used with Hondas/Acura cars regardless of models. DOT4 is designed to absorb moisture slower than DOT3 and has a higher boiling point. This is both suitable for road use and track work. While the OEM Honda DOT4 brake fluid is sufficient for weekend trackdays, meets etc. Using racing specific DOT4 refined brake fluids will increase higher temperature tolerance particularly under hard braking conditions.
Silicone Based DOT5 - Color - Purple | Least common and also the most different from both grades above. DOT5 are primarily designed for cars not equipped with ABS units (Unless otherwise manufacturer specific)and this should not be used unless you're absolutely sure of what you're doing. DOT5 does not absorb moisture and holds the highest boiling point. This brake fluid is not compatible with either categories above and should never be mixed due to it's chemical properties.
07-11-2011, 02:08 PM
#53
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I have Powerslot rotors and they have taken a lot of abuse over the last 5 years, including several HPDEs. I had the HPS pads for a while. On the track, they were good under 100mph. They faded some and were inconsistent on another track where I would get up to 140. Stepping up to the HP+ solved that but they are dusty and have worn the rotors more than other pads.
07-11-2011, 02:32 PM
#54
Hmmm everyone buys Hawk on this board. 
Anyone ever try Carbotech's street or track pads on an Fbody? What about the StopTech "Street Performance Pads"?
I ask partly because there is a lot of Hawk love on this board which isn't necessarily shared on other boards catering to cars besides Fbodies.
Anyone ever try Carbotech's street or track pads on an Fbody? What about the StopTech "Street Performance Pads"?
I ask partly because there is a lot of Hawk love on this board which isn't necessarily shared on other boards catering to cars besides Fbodies.
07-11-2011, 10:55 PM
#55
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Hey BrakeMotive I have a question for you...If I paint your rotors with a high temp brake caliper paint how long will it take to wear off. A day? 2 days? Week? Any idea? I really like the(puts suit on)look of the all black speed inc rotors I posted up, but your deal is kicking me in the nuts if I don't do it
What do you think?
What do you think?
I'm surprised there's not some disclaimer about that on the WS6 store rotors.....that finish might be more durable than paint, but it HAS to wear off pretty quickly.
And FYI - he said in another thread you can paint areas that don't contact the pads with Rustoleum hi-temp grille paint or similar. I plan on doing this.
As far as the Brembo blanks from Smmit, they seem like a good deal, but in reality it's still going to cost you more than if you just bought the complete package from Brakemotive.
Rear rotors and pads from Brakemotive are $95, plus 50 bucks for Brembos + the 11 bucks Summit charges for handling puts you at $156, and you still need rear pads.
And I think it was determined in another thread that those "Brembo" blanks are just generic rotors in a Brembo box.
07-11-2011, 11:13 PM
#56
yeah I highly doubt those 25 dollar brembo rotors are anything special other than a generic casting, just cause it says brembo dosnt mean its performance will be any better.
I got a set of baer decela rotors which are probably quit a bit better but still nothing spectacular. I still belive its all in the pad and the caliper. Rotor performance comes from its size and thats pretty much it. the bigger diamiter it is the better its stopping potential
I got a set of baer decela rotors which are probably quit a bit better but still nothing spectacular. I still belive its all in the pad and the caliper. Rotor performance comes from its size and thats pretty much it. the bigger diamiter it is the better its stopping potential
07-12-2011, 02:47 PM
#57
+1 for picking up a second set of Brembo blanks. I used them when they were $100 each and will be happy to have a replacement set sitting at home for $25 each.
To the OP, I think you're going in the right direction. There are a BUNCH of great options that should work well with your setup, however the Brembo blanks + Hawk pads will leave you with a "budget" setup that should perform quite well.
As for the recommendation, I speak from experience (most of which is very recent). Had the standard stock brakes and couldn't stand the brake fade at high speeds. Replaced the rotors with Brembo blanks, mated them to Hawk DTC-30 (front) and HP + (rear) pads and hit Road Atlanta for a HPDE and the brakes were awesome. Finally the tires (I was using R compounds) became a limiting factor in the braking equation! The DTC-30 is a bit harsh for street driving so I'd go a bit more mild for a pure street (occassional drag strip) setup.
The "PROS" are performance, reliability and they're a cost effective alternative to a more involved 'big brake' setup. As for the "CONS" -- the stock pads had very little dust and hardly ever made a squeak (of course, they hardly ever slowed me down from 140 mph also)! The Hawks pads do dust up a bit so you'll have to clean the wheels more often and they occassionally offer up a squeak. For me, both are manageable and I'll never put the stock pads back on my car.
To the OP, I think you're going in the right direction. There are a BUNCH of great options that should work well with your setup, however the Brembo blanks + Hawk pads will leave you with a "budget" setup that should perform quite well.
As for the recommendation, I speak from experience (most of which is very recent). Had the standard stock brakes and couldn't stand the brake fade at high speeds. Replaced the rotors with Brembo blanks, mated them to Hawk DTC-30 (front) and HP + (rear) pads and hit Road Atlanta for a HPDE and the brakes were awesome. Finally the tires (I was using R compounds) became a limiting factor in the braking equation! The DTC-30 is a bit harsh for street driving so I'd go a bit more mild for a pure street (occassional drag strip) setup.
The "PROS" are performance, reliability and they're a cost effective alternative to a more involved 'big brake' setup. As for the "CONS" -- the stock pads had very little dust and hardly ever made a squeak (of course, they hardly ever slowed me down from 140 mph also)! The Hawks pads do dust up a bit so you'll have to clean the wheels more often and they occassionally offer up a squeak. For me, both are manageable and I'll never put the stock pads back on my car.
07-13-2011, 09:35 AM
#59
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Hey BrakeMotive I have a question for you...If I paint your rotors with a high temp brake caliper paint how long will it take to wear off. A day? 2 days? Week? Any idea? I really like the(puts suit on)look of the all black speed inc rotors I posted up, but your deal is kicking me in the nuts if I don't do it
What do you think?
What do you think?
07-13-2011, 10:04 AM
#60
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Less heatsink material, much increased chances of cracking due to stress risers around the drilled holes, and less material for the pads to work against - which, to me, says less friction between the pads and rotors due to less surface area contact, and most of what I've seen don't point towards cross-drilled rotors being less prone to warpage...the opposite, actually, due to the quicker heat and cool cycles less heatsink material causes (and the annoying bit that a lot of people think cross-drilling is to cool the rotors better, when it doesn't have anything to do with that).
If I'm wrong with anything here, I'm more than interested in hearing how and why (and the physics behind it); what I've said is just my opinion gathered from a myriad of sources over the years, and some personal experience.
If I'm wrong with anything here, I'm more than interested in hearing how and why (and the physics behind it); what I've said is just my opinion gathered from a myriad of sources over the years, and some personal experience.