WhiteKnight '01

Sorry, I haven't looked yet. But what are the SLP Bilsteins? As much as I like the looks and all of a lowered Camaro, I want to keep mine where it is. I've heard that with lowering a car it will gain huge handling advantages, but ride quality suffers and the suspension parts wear out faster. So I plan on keeping mine where it is.

Does the car run on all shocks? Or half shocks and half springs? $600 is the absolute most I would spend, I just want it to be better than brand new stock Z28 parts, but don't need it to be so good that it could handle like a Corvette.

Element

iTrader: (5)

Ambient temperature and bushing squish/deflection can play a bit part in ride and handling. Rubber is pretty susceptible to it - when it heats up, it gets softer and more prone to bushing "squash" which can make the car feel a lot looser; when it gets cold, it shrinks up and can lead to some strange noises and a rougher ride.

New rubber bushings will be less worn and won't be quite as affected by temperature changes, but there will still be some extra squishiness when it's really hot out. Poly is still affected by temperature, but not quite as much, as it starts out a lot harder to begin with...but poly comes with its own set of problems in a lot of applications. Rod ends and solid-style bushings like Delrin will be the least affected by heat but, again, come with their own problems.

For a daily driver on a budget, I'd check into trying to find 1LE bushings for as many components as you can; they're (as far as I know) still a rubber bushing, but of a harder durometer, so they'll be a double upgrade over time-worn stockers. I'd also replace the shocks; SLP Bilsteins (http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=20&ModelID=7) are a good way to go and work great with stock springs. If $600 is the top budget, that's what I would say to do first, along with checking your ball joints and tie rod ends - just because the alignment is good doesn't mean those parts aren't worn out, and they can lead to a sloppy-feeling car. Unfortunately, good replacement parts aren't cheap (Moog ball joints for the upper and lower control arms alone are $150, inner and outer tie rod ends are about $180).

But, that would give you a good starting point for your suspension, and you can add things later, like subframe connectors and the like, as budget permits.

JD_AMG

Theres a big difference between "fine" and a performance alignment.
Whats the actual alignment at? These cars usually have 0 camber from the factory which isn't good for handling or tire wear (will wear the outsides faster).

Bushings as mentioned, but not mentioned was shocks. Shocks are filled with oil, and that oil will become less viscous with heat(gets worse with non-gas charged shocks like QA1s, afco, strange), especially shitty shocks like the stock decarbons. A higher quality shock will not do this as much with heat. I know the feeling, another reason I love Koni SA's so much, such an outstanding shock and huge huge difference for the car.

They add weight and honestly don't help handling.
I added some bolt-ins, got them welded and still notice no difference, and Im not easy on the car, I auto-x it. I added them after shocks, springs, swaybars, all of which made a substantial difference, the shocks (konis) especially.
T-tops have nothing to do with it, these cars were originally made as convertibles, the chassis is much stiffer than most give credit for, and too many mistake lack of shock dampening and the way the rear axle articulates compared to the front suspension as chassis flex.
Better shocks = better ride, handling, feel, control, balance, stability.
Spend your money on good shocks first as long as there is nothing broken or very worn. Then look into swaybars if you can afford it (35mm front, 22mm rear).
Buying "SS" suspension would be a huge waste of money considering you could get much much better stuff for around the same price.

WhiteKnight '01

Element and JD Amg thank you very much for your detailed answers. You told me exactly what I needed to hear.

Over the next few days I'll be taking a look at replacing some of the bushings for the sway bars. The SLP Bilstein shocks come fairly cheap, saw a set of 4 for $350 I think. And I'll see how worn those tie rods are also. I appreciate all the input.

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

If you add a STB and welded SFRs first, you will be able to discern what they did better than if you wait until after replacing shocks, etc. This is the path I took for both my Camaros. For a V8 I would invest in the Koni SAs (I put SLP Bilsteins on my RS), and some bigger hollow sways like Stranos. Don't waste time or money on your current sways/bushings -- upgrade -- you will love the big difference.

Upgrade in phases, if you have a budget constraint...

99FormulaM6r

iTrader: (2)

Both posts were pretty much what I was thinking. When I upgraded to Koni's, my handling improved, as well as much high speed stability (55+)...which seems to be an issue you have. If you're not planning on lowering, the Bilsteins will probably do exactly what you need.

Great advice. You don't need everything at once, it helps show exactly what parts change if you do it in steps. One thing I would say, is if you're going to run stock sway bars for a while, you might as well get some new endlinks for it, at least for the front (might be necessary anyways, as your stockers will probably snap when you take them off). It can help tighten your handling up a little bit, especially being they're only $15 or so.

Still, shocks = #1 upgrade!

WhiteKnight '01

What are the end links? And you say they might snap when I change out the shocks!?

Also, if I'm changing the end links, might as well do the sway bar bushings too right? That's only a few dollars, and I hear that helps a little.

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

The Z front sway is already smaller than the SS has stock, so I would not bother with your current hardware -- upgrade your bars which will include new hardware.

Endlinks:


Endlinks come off during a front shock swap -- they will likely break if they are original.

WhiteKnight '01

How much are Endlinks and where can I get those at? Do they together with the shocks?

Kurt D

iTrader: (2)

About $20 a set from autozone for the energy suspension ones. Much beefier than stock. If you're looking to replace the stock sway bar with a larger one, they usually come with the bushings and endlinks.

Here's my experience: I wanted the car lower for looks and to handle better, but I didn't want to drop major $$ in the SS because I am going to buy a C6 in the, hopfully, near future. I already had the STB, adjustable LCA and panhard with poly bushings, and LCA relocation brackets.

Anyway, I stuck with the stock SS front (32mm) and rear (19mm) sway bars but added new poly end links and bushings. I swaped the springs and shocks for Strano springs and SLP Bilstein shocks. Strano springs due to a moderate drop (1.25") and reputation for handling and SLP Bilsteins due to price/performance. The car most definitely feels far better planted to the road and responsive; the poly bushings and end links helped with body roll and eliminated some noise I was getting. I'm sure a larger sway bar would reduce body roll to almost 0 but is out of my budget and scope for now. I will go so far as to say the ride quality improved tremendously as well. At 40psi in both front and rear like some run for courses, well no, but at 32 front and 30 rear like I run on the street, heck yeah.

I also used the alignment specs that are stickied at the top of this forum and am very happy over all.

Kurt D

iTrader: (2)

And to subframe connectors, I installed a set I bought from Summit shortly after the suspension; one of those too good to pass up deals. They are typical 2 pt weld ins that connect the front frame to the rear LCA mount. They made VERY VERY little difference. My driver side T-top squeaks and they maybe lessened that squeak a little; physically they maybe reduced movment between the cowl and T-top by a 1/16th of an inch. They did NOTHING for the feel of the car and if I'd paid more than $70 for them I'd be pissed.

SuperSport01

If the ride is getting bad its most likely the shocks. Some new Bilstein shocks will cure that. If you want to lower it Sam Strano can help you with that.

Element

iTrader: (5)

SFCs are one of those performance bogeymen...some say they help, other say they do nothing. With a good set of shocks, SFC changes should be minimal; however, f-bodies aren't exactly rigid cars (being able to jack the front tire and leave the rear on the ground is great for a pickup, but not for a performance car) and SFCs will help some with chassis rigidity.

Mine didn't make a bit of difference on the road, but I know it stiffened the car up; prior to installing them, jacking the front corner of the car up left the rear axle firmly planted on the ground. After installing bolt-in SFCs, front corner comes up, so does the rear.

WhiteKnight '01

As for sub-frame connectors, I have read that in mostly stock cars, or cars not pushing out HUGE HP numbers, like 500 or more, that sub-frame connectors will not do much. If I remember right, they work best in very high HP applications, they assist in launching the car and keeping the rear end from flexing too much with that huge power output, but in anything less than 500HP, you won't really notice a difference.

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

I have SFCs on both my SS & RS -- a noticeable rigidity improvement on both, and they're <500 RWHP. Only thing done suspension-wise when SFCs were welded was STBs in both.

TheHeadFL

Uhh, this is the first thread I have ever heard of where people are saying SFCs did nothing for them.

I have yet to meet someone with SFCs who didn't think they were worth every penny. The difference in ride quality is dramatic. As far as I know they aren't advertised to help cornering ability, but they sure do make the car feel a lot less sloppy over bumps that a street car encounters daily.

So I guess I'm just imagining it...

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

SFCs made the car track better in corners -- especially my SS 'Vert...

Ironhead

You have now.

I had probably one of the beefiest set of two point SFCs available welded in my car... Global West DOM 2 inch (IIRC) tubular.

Had them in for a number of years. Cut them out with a Sawzall and haven't regretted it one bit.

Note that I run my car quite hard through some occasionally very bumpy corners (in a competition setting) on bigger, stickier tires (315 Hoosier A6s) than most any car NOT used in competition will ever see.

If there was a performance benefit to SFCs, I'd be running them.

MasterTomos

iTrader: (15)

I didnt see anyone say this directly but the Z28 and SS have 98% of the same suspension pieces. The only difference is actually the FRONT swaybar (not both). Z28=30mm front/20mm rear, SS=32mm Front/20mm rear.

SOME SS's came with SLP optioned Bilsteins, but they are few and far between.

Strano sways are on his site, www.stranoparts.com. I believe they run $400 for the set-a huge improvement over stock and better than the "SS" and even the "almighty" WS6 suspension everyone values so much

SFC's are made by a variety of companies including UMI, BMR, Spohn, SLP, MAC, as well as others. Many guys on here run UMI and BMR, they are great products and priced well.

www.bmrfabrication.com
www.umiperformance.com

check out their websites and start doing some reading on all the suspension goodies

WhiteKnight '01

Actually I think on the first page someone addressed that and said the only difference in suspension between an SS and Z28 is thicker sway bars. I didn't know that before I started this thread, but I know now. I think the SLP Camaro SS with 345HP pckg came with the bilstein shocks.

At any rate, my Z28 will be riding with those bilstein shocks in a couple of months, very excited about getting those.