I'm kinda new here (signed up a few years back when considering swapping F-bodies, decided to hold on to my baby) so bare with me if I'm reposting. I wasn't able to find an exact answer in the archives.

The basic question is actually very simple:
If I'm lowering my car (1.4-1.6" with the Eibach Sportline springs), do I need to have adjustable A-arms in front to correct the alignment back to stock? If so, how adjustable? Do both upper and lower arms need to be adjustable? Do both bushings need adjustments on each arm (ie, some lower arms feature adjustment at only one bushing)? Yes, I plan on buying an adjustable panhard bar to re-center the rear. I would like to avoid the novice (ricer) mistake of excessive tire wear and decreased handling by doing the job properly and safely. If you have expertise in this area, it would also help me to know your background in your reply. Thank you in advance for your help!

If you want to save time, no need to read on from here. If you're interested in the details, here are my plans: I have a 1998 Trans Am that I previously swapped to complete WS6 parts off two wrecked cars (one wrecked in back, used the front parts, and one wrecked in front I sourced the rear, one car with 15K the other with 20K mi) when I bought it about 8 years ago. It had 100K on it then and I'm at 181K now and it will be time again soon to swap suspension. I plan on going to 19" wheels, 275/30R19 tires (possibly 285 on rears or spacers). I don't drag race at all and I don't really autocross, although I do some pretty aggressive canyon carving from time-to-time. My goal is much improved stance/appearance, sharper handling, and less bounciness (through chassis & armature stiffness plus better shocks). I've driven a WS6 with the HD Bilsteins, subframe connectors, and what were likely Eibach Sportline springs and felt it was very close to what I wanted. Here is what I have planned for now:

Bilstein HD Shocks
Eibach Sportline Springs
Subframe Connectors: UMI Tubular 3-Pt. Bolt In
A-Arms: BMR Upper & Lower A-Arms [AAP004]
Tierod Bumpsteer Kit: Spohn Performance Bump Steer Kit [BS-4
Strut tower Brace: UMI Strut Tower Brace [2005]
Antirollbar Fr. Endlinks: Prothane Swaybar End Links [19-409-BL]
Antirollbar Fr. Bushings: Prothane Swaybar Bushing Kit (32mm [7-1137-BL]
Antirollbar Rear: UMI Performance Solid 22mm Sway Bar [2113]
Control Arms Rear: J&M Products Street 3 Piece Poly-Ball Bushing [23851]
Control Arm Relocation Brackets: RPM Speed LCA Relocation Brackets (Bolt On [18832]
Adj. Panhard Bar: RPM Speed On Car Adjustable Panhard Bar [23790]
Bump Stops Rear: http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=19&ModelID=8
Fender Roller 5 day Rental [FNDR-RLR]

 

Been reading up on here about springs, and although I love the look of the Sportlines, I think it would be wiser to go with Strano springs. I actually don't mind the stock ride height in front. The front wheels looks well spaced stock, although the nose does look better when it's closer to the ground. My main reason for wanting the Sportlines is the back end is just way too high IMO. I'm thinking if I throw on the Strano setup and do the heater hose mod, it should be close to what I want. Worst case, I suppose I can cut off part of a coil if I have to. I also think the stock rear WS6 springs are too stiff to the point that they actually hurt handling, so I definitely don't want to increase the spring rate. It looks like the Stranos have a relatively low rate compared to other aftermarket springs, which is probably why they are so popular.

Funny story... I had not heard of the heater hose mod before, but I kind of did the same thing on my car years ago when I put the WS6 springs in. I was actually hoping for less noise transmission into the car, so I wrapped both ends of the springs in heater hose and left the upper rear isolators in place. I'm assuming this probably added another 0.5" or so to the rear, exacerbating the 4x4 look I so despise.

Anyway, my question still stands. Will I be able to properly align the front end after lowering (I guess 1.2" now) using these A-Arms?

 

Man, you've got a lot of researching to do before you buy anything (and waste money on stuff you really don't need).
First, "WS6 springs" are the same springs as the stock TransAm/Camaro gets, they are 114lbs/in rear, which is a pretty low rate. The added harshness you could have felt was from shitty stock decarbon shocks with their higher compression (shitty handling and ride).
Next if you want to corner crave sticking with 17s would be a much better idea (less weight for starters, but you will definitely get a better ride out of it).
"bouncyness" is all from shocks, nothing else. You get a good shock in there and there will be no bounce, you get one that can't control the spring and it will bounce.
As for the list:
Seems you have done a little searching with your above post, sportlines are the worst of the worst, unless you don't care about ride or handling ditch them.
The Bilstiens are a good shock for stock springs, but not really for lowering springs with less travel and more rate for the shock to control, I would look into some Koni SAs (4/3 setup if you want to save some money, check out stranoparts)
Don't need any of this. If you have some extra money laying around you can throw some SFC's on there, but don't expect to be able to tell a difference. Save that money and put it toward better shocks, will be a WAY better investment.
If you are getting a 22mm rear bar you want to match it with a 35mm front bar or you will be seeing oversteer.

Don't need, but if you really want control arms do NOT get poly bushings, go with either solid rubber or UMI roto-joint.
If your stock bump stops look ok then leave them on there, if not you can get those.

 

First off, thank you for taking the time to respond to my post.

I have done a fair amount of research including driving f-bodies with various parts listed as well as reading what is available online. Unfortunately, when it comes to the internet, you can't always believe what you read, be that from sellers or customers. Generally, when it comes to customers, unless a part is really bad, people will succumb to a bit of placebo effect, especially after spending money on the parts. I've also been active in a 4th gen mailing list for 8 years now, and this includes a lot of people who have experience racing and who have been through multiple setups with long term experience.

I don't believe this is accurate. I replaced the springs myself and I can tell you that they were visually distinguishable from one another. I know that there are various breakdowns of this online, but so far I've found nothing as definitive as what I witnessed actually comparing side-by-side.

Yes, this is what I hear.

Switching to 19"s is more of an aesthetic preference. I know that there will be more tire slap and less dampening from the sidewalls.

Overly stiff springs will absolutely cause bounciness as they will follow the contour of the road with the entire chassis. If the road is rough and bouncy, so becomes the ride. I suspect this "buckboard" sensation is why so many people object to the Eibach Sportlines.

Thanks for the advice. I don't believe they are as bad as the rep they have on here, as I've driven a couple of cars with them, but I'll stay away just the same. It sounds like the Strano springs are a good setup.

I realize people on LS1Tech swear by the Konis, but I'm not sure I need adjustable shocks and the price difference, even with the deals I can find, is over $520 more for a set of Konis. I figure I'll adjust them a few times until I find a good setup compromise and then never touch them again.

For sure SFC make a difference. I feel chassis flex on at least one spot in my daily commute that I have not experienced with SFC equipped cars. Having a rigid chassis allows the suspension to do its job, so I'm not skipping these.

My plan was to go with poly bushings and endlinks on the front bar (which is already at 32mm WS6) and stiffen up the rear a bit which rolls over too much IMO currently. If you think 22mm is too aggressive, what would be a better size?

If you look at the J&M Products Street Lower Control Arms 3 Piece Poly-Ball Bushing, I think they have a novel solution which is the best of both worlds. I won't reopen the whole stock arms & rubber vs. aftermarket arms and poly debate again here. I know roto-joints will be much more harsh and poly will restrict needed twisting articulation, so this seems like a good solution to me.

My stock rear bump stops rotted off years ago. Too much road salt and age (the back is so high now, I almost never bottom out). Many of the rubber parts are fatigued or cracked such as both front balljoints and the outer tierod end being popped, pretty much every rubber bushing on the front and rear arms and the rubber isolators on the rear shocks being cracked, which is the reason I'm replacing so much of this stuff. Rather than press in new bushings on old hardware, I'm spending a bit more to lessen unsprung weight and increase the strength of a few key parts in the suspension.

JD_AMG, thanks again for all your advice and taking the time to compose your reply. Hopefully I don't come off too defensive about my choices, it's just some friendly debate , and certainly don't take anything to mean I am not appreciative of your advice, because I am.

 

This is true, you can't always believe what you hear/read. But you can usually pick out the ones that are just trying to sell you something, or have little/no experience.
I trust guys like Sam Strano because of the vast experience, and proven results (multiple national SCCA auto-x titles) that no other suspension vendor can come close to.

Supposedly they vary from different years, some SS/WS6 cars got 1LE springs (which are 360lbs/in front, 130-180 progessive rear) http://www.angelfire.com/my/fastcar/suspension.html
Some definitely got the standard springs though.

The type of "bouncyness" you are talking about is completely different then. Im talking about when a shock cannot dampen the spring, so when you hit a bump in the road the car bounces a few times afterward before settling.
So many people object to the sportlines because they lower you so much you are sitting on the bumpstops, and then they don't have enough rate to compensate for the drop.

Adjusting them and leaving them is generally what a lot do, and thats perfectly fine because they will have better dampening than the Bilstiens (and you will really notice this). You adjust them to a setting you like and leave it, which will likely be much higher dampening than what the bilstiens have (which is comparable to front Konis on full soft, me for example I run around 6 sweeps higher than that, and its a huge difference).


Depends on who you talk to. Talk to the guys that fixed the real problems first (shocks) and you will see they didn't noticed SFC's. I put konis on my car first(and got rid of what I *thought* was flex, then later down the road bolt on 3pt SFC's and had them welded, noticed no difference what so ever.) For another comparison a buddy had SFC's and stock suspension, and I had the Konis (on otherwise stock suspension) with no SFC's and my car was WAY more solid, stable, rode much better and handled night and days better. - his had no advantages at all.

32mm front matches up to 19mm rear (stock).
The "roll" you feel may be your shitty shocks. Check out what the auto-x/road racers use (35/22 or 32/19).

Personally that company is kinda fishy and I wouldn't trust them, but thats up to you. I have UMI roto-joint and they are barely more harsh than stock.

No problem at all, I enjoy helping fellow Fbody owners making these cars better, thats what this site is for

 

JD_AMG, thanks again for your reply.

I'm inclined to agree. Anytime someone field tests parts back-to-back with their alternatives, this is what I listen to. While what works on the racetrack isn't necessarily what you want on the street, if the individual is versed enough, they will have experience in multiple fields.

Interesting link. I don't think I've ever seen the Eibach spring rates listed anywhere before. Here is the reference I've used for a while now:
http://tech.firebirdv6.com/general.html
"WS6 Performance Package suspension components include a 32/19 mm front/rear sway bar combination in lieu of the normal FE2 suspension 30/19 mm. The front spring rate increased from 51 N/mm on a normal V8 Formula/Trans Am to 63 for the WS6. Rear spring stiffness on the WS6 suspension carries a variable rate of 23 to 30 N/mm compared to 19.9 on a normal V8 Formula/Trans Am. This Package also included different shock valving, 1LE transmission mount, 1LE panhard rod, Ram Air hood, and 275/40ZR17 tires."

The kind of undulation you are describing has never been an issue on any f-body I have ever driven except for over the harshest of frame twisting bumps. Or if it is, it is indistinguishable from the direct road impact of the rough surface below.

You are nearly convincing me to switch to the Konis. Are you saying you have had both the Bilstein HDs and Koni Sports on your car? I'd like to hear from anyone else who can weigh in on whether the Konis are worth the extra $520+.

The problem is that there is so much going on with the bar beyond just diameter. Ignoring differences in spring height, rate, and shock setup, there are hollow bars and solid ones, some are stiffer due to thicker walls or specific metallurgy, bushings vary by compound as do endlinks, heck, even the same bar can act different based on how far off axis the end links are bolted to create an adjustable stiffness. I do believe the bars must be matched for neutral handling, but I also think that the stock rear bar yields too much roll in the rear, probably to favor understeer. To help balance the larger rear bar (when stock BTW, it's the same size as the non WS6 so 30/19 works and so does 32/19) I plan to put the stiffer front bushings and endlinks on the 32mm bar.

Again, thanks for your advice. I am assuming that you were able to properly align your car to factory specs after lowering it even without adjustable A-arms. Is that correct?

 

Absolutely.

Thats interesting, and go along the lines of what I was saying. Those are 1LE springs rates, and I know that my rear springs were linear, not progressive so I know I had at least standard rear springs and I have a real WS6.


I haven't used bilstiens on my car, im going off what others have said that have used both, search around.
couple comparisons here: https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...gx-02-ws6.html
If you are going for handling, then I would say yes hands down they are worth the extra money.


Oh Im well aware, again im going with what has been tried and tested by others, and those who have won autox events to prove it.

If you really want to try go ahead, but have money set aside for a 35mm front bar, I bet you'll want it afterward...

Yes you will have no problem with alignments (although you don't want "factory spec" if you want handling, check out the site I posted earlier with the springs rates again, it will have alignment specs for better handling.)
Those A-arm are for getting a more extreme alignment.

 

do not put a 22mm on the rear with a stock front bar youll lift a rear tire in hard turns and tear rear end links into pieces. jd amg is right its your sloppy front springs and shocks. and ill chime in to say spend the extra 520 bucks ive had a bunch of different shocks konis were worth every penny i just wished i got them first. also poly bushings do kinda suck i only have poly in my rear lca's and its so rough during the winter cause i DD my car

 

That link was AWESOME! Thank you so much. Okay, you convinced me, I'll get the Konis (I have to admit that when I first started reading that thread I got the comments on KYB mixed up with Koni since they both start with "K"...) I have a friend that put KYB adjustable shocks in his Prelude Type SH and now I know why he was unimpressed.

Yeah, I spotted that. Do I have to worry about accelerated tire wear with those settings, or will it just make the car a bit more nervous in exchange for sharper handling?

So what do the two of you recommend then? 32/19mm with fresh endlinks and bushings, or all new bars that include the above at 35/22mm? If the latter will make the ride noticeably harsher, I'll stick with the stock bars.

I'm starting to think about just popping the 1LE rubber bushings into the stock rear LCAs. I don't think polyurethane binding would be as much of an issue with the front though, as double wishbone setups don't have to twist the way struts or live axle parts do.

Again, thanks to JD_AMG for your advice and to bwkmaro for chiming in.