02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

. . . . and when someone decides on a stiffer setting, should they shorten the height of the endlinks so that the angle of the sway bar is leveled out?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

If you'd like.... Really doesn't matter in reality as much as folks would like you to believe, but sure you can shorten those links if you wish to make the bar more parallel.

02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

Thanks! I think I got all my questions answered now!

LS2Ttype

iTrader: (9)

I cant believe I made this into a big ordeal LOL, anyway its all good info IMOP and i think it does help others decide whats best for them and a adjustable bar sounds like a really good idea,

LS2Ttype

iTrader: (9)

Looks like its going to be a 22 adjustable for me, I do trust sam all the way , i just wasnt sure how good a adjustable bar would work for me, and again i want to get back some of my ride

I do have a few questions, Sam IYOP would you say the 25mm adjustable in its softest position would equal the 22mm in its stiffest position?

for you 02TransAM/batman could you help out and try your bar in the stiffest setting and let me us know how it feels , how much stiffer the suspension gets , and do a little driving for us over some rougher road, maybe you can compair the 2 settings, I figure ill leave mine in the soffest position all the time and when its time for Atco or E-town ill set her in the stiffest position, anyway batman that would be really cool if you could do a little testing for us

02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

I could do try it out and report my findings but I'm not sure how much it would help in your decision. Anything you read on LS1Tech is purely subjective statements and on top of the anecdotal evidence from said statements, all tastes are individualistic. For example, one could say the MS3 kicks *** while others won't like the under the curve torque (abysmal due to low DCR). If you want a sense of what I'm talking about, try a search for "strut tower braces."

LS2Ttype

iTrader: (9)

Last but not least, I took a friend that knows a lot about GN's , turbo regal's etc, He always said the F-bodys ride stiffer than a G body and i already know that , i used to own a GN and i now own a LS2/novi powered 87 turbo T (T-type), so IHOP he sais the bigger sway bar tightens up the sloppy G body and he likes it, , IDK because my GN had pertty much stock suspension, any way he felt the way my car rides, i showed he over some rougher road how i dont like the way the back end has like no control and how the left affects the right and visa versa over where only one side of the car is riding over some rough road, To him its no big deal but he sees what im talking about and its clear and very much the way im saying it

Anyway he thinks besides the rear monster Bar i have that the weld in UMI rail sub-fram connectors and the UMI K-member also stiffened up the car,

So i want to list again what suspension mods i have

Front: UMI K-member , strano S/A konies set to lower pearch with Stock springs

UMI 2 point weld in sub fram connectors, OK i had the sub frams installed 4 years ago way befor and other suspension mods, and they felt Perfect they did tighten the car a little bit but nothing crazy, in fact car felt slightly stiffer and i loved it on stock suspension

Rear: UMI LCA's (poly ends) adjustable in the middle, PHB (poly ends) adjustable in the middle, Konies S/A with stock springs (set soft i think) UMI tranny relocation brace with Spohn adjustable TQ arm, and of cours that POS Drag Bar

OK besides replacing that monster POS sway bar, what else can I do to soften of the car a bit??

LS2Ttype

iTrader: (9)

TA/Batman thats ok, it would still be cool to let us know what YOU think, if you like the 35/22 set up now i believe you , and i heard a 1,000 times the 35/22 bars work nice on our cars, try it out set her up on stiff and see how she changes and feels, like for example a every day street driver, when u get on the car does the stiff position keep the car from twisting etc,

redracer1

iTrader: (2)

LS2Ttype.....Replace the UMI LCA poly ends with poly/roto-joint. I had poly/poly and made the switch. Less binding and frees up the suspension over irregularities in the road. Sam sell these also.

LS2Ttype

iTrader: (9)

Na, my LCA's are fine and nice and greased up,

redracer1

iTrader: (2)

.....ya I thought the same thing.

LS2Ttype

iTrader: (9)

how much of a differance did if really make redracer1 ?

which side gets the roto-joint?

BrntWS6

iTrader: (7)

For those that have put on front and rear sways, how is ride quality affected? I pretty much have all the basic suspension changed (Shock, springs, LCAs, PHB) and have held off on sway bars.

vatechguy3

iTrader: (4)

Sways were my first upgrade, so cant speak for the change in that order, but i daily drive mine.
Mods in sig.

Tony

eb110americana

iTrader: (4)

I say, go for it. I did all of my suspension almost at once, but the sway bars felt like they made the most difference. They are my favorite of the suspension mods. They will have much less ride penalty than your springs probably have. Over speed bumps, there will be no change (if you hit them straight).

BrntWS6

iTrader: (7)

So I put the non-adjustable front and rear sways on (knew I would never adjust anything) and I notice no negative affect on ride quality at all. If anything it made the ride quality better, could be to worn out bushings. They weren't cracked or anything but still 15 years old.

stp001

25/35 solid sway bars may not be the best overall combination for a national level autox driver with a national level car, but to the average Joe who judges a car's handling by the quickness of steering turn-in, and the ability of the car to stay flat through your average high speed street cornering situation, they would probably get picked as the "best" sway bar combo every time.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I disagree, completely. Not that it is a shock. First off, let me ask which bars you have. And what you've tried.

Then let me ask if you understand how much stiffer a 25mm bar is than a 22mm?

The car has no idea where it's driven or who is driving it, let's understand that. Then understand how a rear bar works. The bigger it is the more it wants to pick up the inside rear wheel in a corner. That makes the outside rear do more and more work. And there is a point where it can't carry all the load. Grip is lost and you end up in an oversteer. That's not fun on the road, not safe. Add in things like bumps, gravel patches, etc, and it only makes that worse.

Then consider the BEST place to have a car drive loose is a controlled environment like an autocross. And we still don't want that, because oversteer is slow.

So you can think 25mm isn't too much and that's ok. But here's a little bit of a hint. 3rd gens came with solid 24's stock because of how their front suspensions worked. The biggest bar that ever came on this car was solid 21, even though the rear suspensions are exactly the same (excepting the wider 4th gen rear axle). So why do you think they didn't put as big a bar on this car?

stp001

I am not an automotive suspension engineer, but I do have a fairly decent grasp on the subject. I also understand the difference between 10/10's driving and 7/10's driving, and the basic instincts of the drivers whose time is spent in the two distinctly different driving styles. I personally have bars in 35/25 in both solid and hollow. At this particular moment, I have solid front, hollow rear installed. I wouldn't consider my car anywhere near dangerously tail happy. In fact, contrary to what GM may have deemed appropriate for the public so many years ago, I'm sure my car, which isn't nearly as developed as your car, would run circles around an original Z28.
It sounded like you took offense by my previous post. I meant none. My point really is that most fellas, the "average Joe" as UMI described it, run staggered tires, medium quality shocks, 150/500+- lowering springs, and minimal caster and camber change. For these cars, which I believe make up most cars because they certainly aren't showing up in great numbers at the autocross events in my state. For these cars the size of the rear sway bars as it relates to oversteer is overshadowed by the planted feeling that a stiffer bar offers at even 9/10's driving speed.
I can appreciate all that you bring to the table here. You are very focused. I understand your frustration with suggestions that one might tune for a driving experience that lives at less than WOT!!

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Ok... so why do you have the hollow one on? Because it's softer and is a better match to the front. So run a hollow front, then you'd want a softer rear by some amount, which would not be 25mm, right?

As for 7/10 vs. 10/10ths. You seem to think that 22mm isn't adequate, and in some instances it might not be, which is why we have an adjustable rear bar. Now, you mention UMI. We are very good friends, and I think they'd admit I have helped them much with certain things over the years. Notice the rear bar they have for non drag racing?

A rear bar does not give a more planted car. It might seem that way, but if it does it's because you are lacking shock control on the rebound side. Bars are about balance in handling terms, not stability. In fact the larger the bar, the less stable the back will become as you approach the limit. People use improper parts to cover for a lack of proper parts all the time, which is what you are describing.

And you are assuming that I am speaking only from a racing standpoint. While I do race, and spend time on a track, I spend far more time on the normal road. And when people come to my place and we go for a ride in my car, it's not on a racetrack or an autocross course. It's on Western PA roads. If the car doesn't work well, they are unimpressed. People don't leave my shop unimpressed with how my car works.