Various Spring/Shock combos w/ reviews etc
10-25-2013, 10:16 AM
#1
Various Spring/Shock combos w/ reviews etc This thread is a spin off of a reply to a post regarding the ride quality of the Bilstein HD/SLP shocks vs. the 'new' Koni STR.T shocks.
Hopefully my feedback will help others in their goals for what they want their car to ultimately do. A little about me first to help understand my thought process.
My background has always been in drag racing, making a car go fast in a straight line that I can tolerate on the street. Since getting into hotrodding back in 1998 when I was a junior in high school, I've always had the mindset that you have to have weight transfer to make a car work at the drag strip, and you can only accomplish this with an all out drag racing oriented suspension. I'd spend countless hours comparing combinations in my head based on what I'd read online based on what the car was 'supposed' to do.
After trying several different shock/spring combinations I've finally realized that on this 'quest' for a better 60 foot time I was slowly taking the ride quality and enjoyment of street driving the car, when that's where the majority of me driving the car was happening.
Since my driving habits haven't really changed, and I'm not going out to the local drag strip as often as I used to, I have new goals in mind for the project car in my sig. I want a car that's fun/exciting to drive in every aspect, not just going fast in a straight line from a stop. The words I'm living by on this build are: it's a lot easier to drag race a road race car than it is to road race a drag race car, and I'd much prefer to drag race an automatic transmission than a manual one. I want the car I'm building to do it all and be multifaceted, not a one trick pony.
I was asked...
My post was...
Keep in mind in these reviews, I've never autocrossed or road raced any of my cars. All of these combinations are between $600-700 since price was asked. All of these cars have had automatic transmissions. I've had an M6 LT1 and an M6 '02 ZO6, and I just prefer automatics. I like how the power comes on and not having excuses why I lost a race because of transmission issues. Pics are after each review.
Bilstein HDs/DMS springs (can still be had sparsely on the web as Granatelli Springs, they are the same): Other suspension mods were - deleted front swaybar, factory rear swaybar, BMR non adj LCAs (not boxed). Excellent ride quality, not harsh, but not sloppy either. More soft than stiff. Slight body roll due to removed front sway, but never felt sloppy or out of control. Worked well in a daily type setup, with a 4400 TCI converter and 3.73 gearing and a small cam the car would low 1.7 60's full weight on Nitto 555Rs. Good all around combination from the street type driving I did with it.
QA1 Fs w/ 275lb springs/Comp 3 way rears: Other suspension mods were - deleted front swaybar, factory rear swaybar, BMR boxed LCAs, stock rear springs with hose mod. Front was ride height adjustable. Stiff ride, harsh over bumps - yet floaty over inclines/declines in road, car feels more detached from driver input. I never felt unsafe with it, but even with the shocks adjusted on a middle street setting, it was still stiff and more rough. Similar feel to a worn out stock shock, but floaty over slight elevation changes. With a TCI 3500 converter the car would cut high 1.6 60s w/ 500rwhp. Car weighed 3550 with the turbo kit and me in the car.
KYB adjustables/Eibach pro kit: Other suspension mods were - BMR tubular LCAs, 22mm rear swaybar. Ride was stiff regardless which setting I put these shocks on. Not sure if they were worn out or what, but they were on the car when I bought it. Could have been the springs to from what I've read. These were my least favorite setup. Car just felt harsh brick to drive, felt heavy and was pretty jarring over bumps etc. Car weighed 3650 with me in it w/ a turbo kit
SLP bilsteins/stock springs cut 1 coil: Other suspension mods - BMR tubular LCAs, removed front swaybar, 22mm rear swaybar. Almost as nice of a ride as the Bilstein HD/DMS setup, slightly more harsh/stiff than that car was. Front end of this car was nose heavy due to the turbo, so the car would body roll a little more noticeably than the pewter z mentioned above did. I think this would have been a nicer setup on a nicer aftermarket spring. Money was an issue at the time and I'd heard stockers were ok, should have just been patient. Car weighed 3700 with me in it, turbo kit, and heavy wheels
Strange S/A fronts/Hypercoil 300lb springs / Comp 3-way rears/stock springs cut 1 coil with isolaters removed: Other suspension mods - BMR LCAs, removed rear swaybar. I HATED how these Strange S/A front shocks made the front end feel on the street. Any setting I tried the car just felt disconnected up front and sloppy. The front end would feel like it was skipping around kinda like the rearend of a stock panhard bar'd car feels. I don't think this was due to the front sway being gone, but I'm sure it didn't help. Car was full weight.
What I've learned
QA1/Strange shocks IMO aren't worth it if you're not building a track only car and setting the suspension up fully to go fast in a straight line (body mount torque arm, anti-roll bar, etc). The roads here I drive on the most are crappy, so I need to outfit a car with shocks that aren't going to beat me to death making my car less fun to street drive. I need to find someone local with Koni adjustables to see if they're too stiff for my liking on the roads I frequent. They've always intrigued me, but the most comfortable I've felt in one of these cars was the Bilstein HD (true older style HDs not SLP valving) and the DMS springs. They were progressive rate, and lots of folks have said their ride is more comfortable than others. I'd like to know how the Koni STR.T shocks compare to these and if they're as stiff as the Koni adjustables. I don't think I'll be tinkering with the settings much on adjustables, so having the adjustability isn't as big a deal to me.
If I could find a suspension combination that felt/handled/worked like a '13 Boss 302 Mustang or a '13 1LE Camaro SS, I'd use those parts in a heartbeat. I've ridden in these cars on the crappy roads here I'm talking about and I could deal with how stiff those cars were - stiff but not jarring, and still comfortable and confidence inspiring.
Hopefully my feedback will help others in their goals for what they want their car to ultimately do. A little about me first to help understand my thought process.
My background has always been in drag racing, making a car go fast in a straight line that I can tolerate on the street. Since getting into hotrodding back in 1998 when I was a junior in high school, I've always had the mindset that you have to have weight transfer to make a car work at the drag strip, and you can only accomplish this with an all out drag racing oriented suspension. I'd spend countless hours comparing combinations in my head based on what I'd read online based on what the car was 'supposed' to do.
After trying several different shock/spring combinations I've finally realized that on this 'quest' for a better 60 foot time I was slowly taking the ride quality and enjoyment of street driving the car, when that's where the majority of me driving the car was happening.
Since my driving habits haven't really changed, and I'm not going out to the local drag strip as often as I used to, I have new goals in mind for the project car in my sig. I want a car that's fun/exciting to drive in every aspect, not just going fast in a straight line from a stop. The words I'm living by on this build are: it's a lot easier to drag race a road race car than it is to road race a drag race car, and I'd much prefer to drag race an automatic transmission than a manual one. I want the car I'm building to do it all and be multifaceted, not a one trick pony.
I was asked...
Considering you seem to have a lot of experience. Lets hear some pros and cons from all these setups you have had on your cars. Seriously for the benefit of all considering different setups. Like: PROS and CONS- ride quality cush? and performance, cost, looks, drag, autox...
My post was...
I'm the type of guy that overthinks everything when it comes to modding. I go round and round in my head about what I can live with vs what I 'want' the car to do. I've had 4 of these cars in the past and they all had different types of suspension setups as far as springs/shocks is concerned (bilstein HDs/DMS springs, QA1 Fs w/ 275lb springs/Comp 3 way rears, KYB adjustables/Eibach pro kit, SLP bilsteins/stock springs cut 1 coil, stock/stock).
Bilstein HDs/DMS springs (can still be had sparsely on the web as Granatelli Springs, they are the same): Other suspension mods were - deleted front swaybar, factory rear swaybar, BMR non adj LCAs (not boxed). Excellent ride quality, not harsh, but not sloppy either. More soft than stiff. Slight body roll due to removed front sway, but never felt sloppy or out of control. Worked well in a daily type setup, with a 4400 TCI converter and 3.73 gearing and a small cam the car would low 1.7 60's full weight on Nitto 555Rs. Good all around combination from the street type driving I did with it.
QA1 Fs w/ 275lb springs/Comp 3 way rears: Other suspension mods were - deleted front swaybar, factory rear swaybar, BMR boxed LCAs, stock rear springs with hose mod. Front was ride height adjustable. Stiff ride, harsh over bumps - yet floaty over inclines/declines in road, car feels more detached from driver input. I never felt unsafe with it, but even with the shocks adjusted on a middle street setting, it was still stiff and more rough. Similar feel to a worn out stock shock, but floaty over slight elevation changes. With a TCI 3500 converter the car would cut high 1.6 60s w/ 500rwhp. Car weighed 3550 with the turbo kit and me in the car.
KYB adjustables/Eibach pro kit: Other suspension mods were - BMR tubular LCAs, 22mm rear swaybar. Ride was stiff regardless which setting I put these shocks on. Not sure if they were worn out or what, but they were on the car when I bought it. Could have been the springs to from what I've read. These were my least favorite setup. Car just felt harsh brick to drive, felt heavy and was pretty jarring over bumps etc. Car weighed 3650 with me in it w/ a turbo kit
SLP bilsteins/stock springs cut 1 coil: Other suspension mods - BMR tubular LCAs, removed front swaybar, 22mm rear swaybar. Almost as nice of a ride as the Bilstein HD/DMS setup, slightly more harsh/stiff than that car was. Front end of this car was nose heavy due to the turbo, so the car would body roll a little more noticeably than the pewter z mentioned above did. I think this would have been a nicer setup on a nicer aftermarket spring. Money was an issue at the time and I'd heard stockers were ok, should have just been patient. Car weighed 3700 with me in it, turbo kit, and heavy wheels
Strange S/A fronts/Hypercoil 300lb springs / Comp 3-way rears/stock springs cut 1 coil with isolaters removed: Other suspension mods - BMR LCAs, removed rear swaybar. I HATED how these Strange S/A front shocks made the front end feel on the street. Any setting I tried the car just felt disconnected up front and sloppy. The front end would feel like it was skipping around kinda like the rearend of a stock panhard bar'd car feels. I don't think this was due to the front sway being gone, but I'm sure it didn't help. Car was full weight.
What I've learned
QA1/Strange shocks IMO aren't worth it if you're not building a track only car and setting the suspension up fully to go fast in a straight line (body mount torque arm, anti-roll bar, etc). The roads here I drive on the most are crappy, so I need to outfit a car with shocks that aren't going to beat me to death making my car less fun to street drive. I need to find someone local with Koni adjustables to see if they're too stiff for my liking on the roads I frequent. They've always intrigued me, but the most comfortable I've felt in one of these cars was the Bilstein HD (true older style HDs not SLP valving) and the DMS springs. They were progressive rate, and lots of folks have said their ride is more comfortable than others. I'd like to know how the Koni STR.T shocks compare to these and if they're as stiff as the Koni adjustables. I don't think I'll be tinkering with the settings much on adjustables, so having the adjustability isn't as big a deal to me.
If I could find a suspension combination that felt/handled/worked like a '13 Boss 302 Mustang or a '13 1LE Camaro SS, I'd use those parts in a heartbeat. I've ridden in these cars on the crappy roads here I'm talking about and I could deal with how stiff those cars were - stiff but not jarring, and still comfortable and confidence inspiring.
10-26-2013, 09:44 AM
#2
Thx for the write up. I can't help but think the front sway bars may have had a lot to do with the slop issues. Could be wrong but would be cool to feel the difference with and without one. I understand why you went without them tho.
10-26-2013, 10:36 AM
#3
I pulled them from the blue TA, pewter TA, and this pewter hardtop in my sig. On the lowered cars its not as noticeable. I thought the pewter z28 (first car) had one, I was surprised when I got it on a lift to remove it and it was already off from a previous owner
10-26-2013, 11:12 AM
#4
Very nice write up. Do you (or anyone else) have a similar set of comparisons for the other generations of F-bodies? I can speak for one combination: adjustable QA1s + Global West Springs + Stock WS6 sway bars. But it would be cool to see what others have done - especially if they were all from one person's point of view (eliminating, to an extent, the very human impulse to "talk up" their specific purchase choices).
