Koni's and BMR springs issues
06-11-2014, 04:20 PM
#21
When I spoke with Koni, I had them check stock on the part number, and they told me they were in stock ready to ship. Per their policy they will ship you a set for roughly $375 that will be refunded once they receive the warrantied shocks and deem them a warranty claim. When I relayed what you told me to the Koni rep, he told me it definitely sounded like a warranty issue and should be no problem to get taken care of. To avoid any downtime, this will be the easiest and quickest solution. I can send you another pair, BUT because of our policies I would have to charge you full retail price, that would be refunded once we send the shocks back to Koni and are verified as warranty issues. The only way to avoid up-front cost is to be able to send the shocks to Koni for verification before hand, but this will result in either down time, or having to put the factory shocks back on the car in the meantime.
06-18-2014, 02:28 PM
#22
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Update! Having disabilities I did not want to go through the install process more than once, again. The first time was tough enough. So after ZERO help from BMR on a product I had problems with on day two, I ditched the Koni's bought Viking coil overs and a group of guys from the local SCCA came over and helped with the install. Car is MUCH improved, no crashing on the bump stops, I can highly recommend them. The Koni crap is stuffed in the garage for now, I don't even feel like looking at it right now. At some point I'll pony up even more cash to hopefully get them swapped and sell the mess on ebay, to recoup some of the costs of this nightmare.
06-18-2014, 05:08 PM
#23
Update! Having disabilities I did not want to go through the install process more than once, again. The first time was tough enough. So after ZERO help from BMR on a product I had problems with on day two, I ditched the Koni's bought Viking coil overs and a group of guys from the local SCCA came over and helped with the install. Car is MUCH improved, no crashing on the bump stops, I can highly recommend them. The Koni crap is stuffed in the garage for now, I don't even feel like looking at it right now. At some point I'll pony up even more cash to hopefully get them swapped and sell the mess on ebay, to recoup some of the costs of this nightmare.
BMR has been as helpful as anyone would expect. They contacted Koni, and told you how to resolve your issue. They also offered to resolve it themselves, and then handle things with Koni on their own. What did you want BMR to do exactly? Give you a second set of a product they don't personally produce or warranty, free and clear, before receiving the "bad" units to send out for warranty?
Ever go to an electronics shop and try to get a replacement for a product, but the product you're replacing is at home? No business is going to give you a replacement without either the defective product in their possession, or money, which they will refund when they have the defective product in their possession.
I'm glad you're happy with Viking. They are nice. But your experience with Koni is far from typical... and could have been resolved much more easily. Enjoy your new coilovers.
06-18-2014, 07:30 PM
#24
I had a set of Koni's leaking from the rod where the rebound adjuster is, producing the symptom the OP mentioned. Sent them to Koni and got them fixed, reinstalled them, problem solved. I think the OP over complicated the situation, as BMR seemed to jump right on here and work the issue with him.
06-19-2014, 07:33 AM
#25
Is it bullshit to have to go through all that, charge this, inspect that, refund this... blah blah ? Yes... it is.
You guys can flame if you want about how it is standard consumer practice all you want. Just because it is, doesn't mean it isn't bullshit.
I really hate when companies sell me something and when I have a issue two days later, all of a sudden they can't help and tell me to take it up with the manufacture. Whom we ALL know is always fun.
I've gotten a raw deal a couple times with parts companies wanting the part back to "inspect" and I end up paying to ship it to them just for them to keep it and offer to sell me another one because the part that fell apart to pieces was "installed wrong".
I think if a company can sell you something, like BMR in this case, then if there is a glaring defect they should exchange it and they take it up with manufacture since they have a closer relationship with them.
You guys can flame if you want about how it is standard consumer practice all you want. Just because it is, doesn't mean it isn't bullshit.
I really hate when companies sell me something and when I have a issue two days later, all of a sudden they can't help and tell me to take it up with the manufacture. Whom we ALL know is always fun.
I've gotten a raw deal a couple times with parts companies wanting the part back to "inspect" and I end up paying to ship it to them just for them to keep it and offer to sell me another one because the part that fell apart to pieces was "installed wrong".
I think if a company can sell you something, like BMR in this case, then if there is a glaring defect they should exchange it and they take it up with manufacture since they have a closer relationship with them.
Last edited by My6speedZ; 06-19-2014 at 08:28 AM.
06-19-2014, 08:40 AM
#26
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Is it bullshit to have to go through all that, charge this, inspect that, refund this... blah blah ? Yes... it is.
You guys can flame if you want about how it is standard consumer practice all you want. Just because it is, doesn't mean it isn't bullshit.
I really hate when companies sell me something and when I have a issue two days later, all of a sudden they can't help and tell me to take it up with the manufacture. Whom we ALL know is always fun.
I've gotten a raw deal a couple times with parts companies wanting the part back to "inspect" and I end up paying to ship it to them just for them to keep it and offer to sell me another one because the part that fell apart to pieces was "installed wrong".
I think if a company can sell you something, like BMR in this case, then if there is a glaring defect they should exchange it and they take it up with manufacture since they have a closer relationship with them.
You guys can flame if you want about how it is standard consumer practice all you want. Just because it is, doesn't mean it isn't bullshit.
I really hate when companies sell me something and when I have a issue two days later, all of a sudden they can't help and tell me to take it up with the manufacture. Whom we ALL know is always fun.
I've gotten a raw deal a couple times with parts companies wanting the part back to "inspect" and I end up paying to ship it to them just for them to keep it and offer to sell me another one because the part that fell apart to pieces was "installed wrong".
I think if a company can sell you something, like BMR in this case, then if there is a glaring defect they should exchange it and they take it up with manufacture since they have a closer relationship with them.
06-19-2014, 10:17 AM
#27
Yes I did read the thread. My point is that I understand how the OP feels. You drop that kind of money and sometimes you feel like you shouldn't have to go through all that crap. All BMR offered was to sell him some and then refund him once they resolved it with Koni. I think that is BS.
The fact of the matter is that defect do happen. Instead of assuming everyone is out to screw them why not ship a replacement as soon as OP provided tracking info on the shock in question being on its way back to BMR or Koni. I'm not out to flame BMR, Koni could have just as easily been more accommodating. Take his info and charge him if the shock checks out fine. That would be a lot more helpful. That way he has as short of downtime as possible. I mean the guys is disabled, he can't just be pulling them off and on 2-3 times for this.
All I am saying is I can understand why the OP went another way. I've been through this and you just feel ousted.
The fact of the matter is that defect do happen. Instead of assuming everyone is out to screw them why not ship a replacement as soon as OP provided tracking info on the shock in question being on its way back to BMR or Koni. I'm not out to flame BMR, Koni could have just as easily been more accommodating. Take his info and charge him if the shock checks out fine. That would be a lot more helpful. That way he has as short of downtime as possible. I mean the guys is disabled, he can't just be pulling them off and on 2-3 times for this.
All I am saying is I can understand why the OP went another way. I've been through this and you just feel ousted.
Last edited by My6speedZ; 06-19-2014 at 10:41 AM.
06-19-2014, 12:43 PM
#28
Yes I did read the thread. My point is that I understand how the OP feels. You drop that kind of money and sometimes you feel like you shouldn't have to go through all that crap. All BMR offered was to sell him some and then refund him once they resolved it with Koni. I think that is BS.
The fact of the matter is that defect do happen. Instead of assuming everyone is out to screw them why not ship a replacement as soon as OP provided tracking info on the shock in question being on its way back to BMR or Koni. I'm not out to flame BMR, Koni could have just as easily been more accommodating. Take his info and charge him if the shock checks out fine. That would be a lot more helpful. That way he has as short of downtime as possible. I mean the guys is disabled, he can't just be pulling them off and on 2-3 times for this.
All I am saying is I can understand why the OP went another way. I've been through this and you just feel ousted.
The fact of the matter is that defect do happen. Instead of assuming everyone is out to screw them why not ship a replacement as soon as OP provided tracking info on the shock in question being on its way back to BMR or Koni. I'm not out to flame BMR, Koni could have just as easily been more accommodating. Take his info and charge him if the shock checks out fine. That would be a lot more helpful. That way he has as short of downtime as possible. I mean the guys is disabled, he can't just be pulling them off and on 2-3 times for this.
All I am saying is I can understand why the OP went another way. I've been through this and you just feel ousted.
I communicated with the OP outside of this thread multiple times, and that was my first option, as it is our standard return process to ship a replacement product once the tracking is active for the shipping label we provide. Koni directly offered the same. However the OP did not want downtime as the car is his daily driver and is still drivable. I spoke directly with Koni about this issue when it first came up to see what my options were to resolve this. Koni themselves told me it would be best for them to deal direct to the customer with the warranty issue since it is a product they manufacture and not us. They advised me to stay out of the middle of it as it would complicate things. I offered to step in just to take some of the burden off of the OP. I forwarded him a form that had to be filled out by the end user for the warranty claim, as it requires information I cannot provide. I told him if he filled out the form, even if he did not want to deal direct with Koni, that I would still help in getting new shocks out to him, then I would deal with Koni on getting the warranty replacements. My hands were tied without the form being filled out. I have no problem helping or doing what I can, but I cannot front nearly $600 in shocks when the warranty procedure has not even been started.
I am sorry you feel this way about this experience. We literally have hundreds, if not thousands of these combinations out there on cars, with great success. It is very rare we have an issue with Koni's, but when we have, they have always been good about getting it handled. They provided me with the information and procedure necessary immediately, in which I forwarded directly to the customer. I cannot force the customer to follow these procedures. It was not only our policy but that of Koni as well that we cannot send out product without some sort of deposit.
Let me put it this way:
If I were to send the customer out new shocks at no charge, then take back the old ones and send them to Koni for warranty inspection, what would then be my course of action if Koni called me to say they determined that the cause of failure was an installation issue and they would not cover it. Should we be liable to cover the cost of the shocks then? The customer definitely would not want me to call him at this point and tell him he has to pay for the second set of shocks.
I am not really sure what the correct answer is here. Koni and myself both offered to remedy the situation in the same manner. We provided the information necessary to move forward with the process. I never received any further communication. So I have no way of knowing if the customer finished the claim directly with Koni or not. So if I am wrong by handling this how I did I am sorry, but I really do not know what else could have been done in this situation.
06-19-2014, 12:53 PM
#29
Yes I did read the thread. My point is that I understand how the OP feels. You drop that kind of money and sometimes you feel like you shouldn't have to go through all that crap. All BMR offered was to sell him some and then refund him once they resolved it with Koni. I think that is BS.
The fact of the matter is that defect do happen. Instead of assuming everyone is out to screw them why not ship a replacement as soon as OP provided tracking info on the shock in question being on its way back to BMR or Koni. I'm not out to flame BMR, Koni could have just as easily been more accommodating. Take his info and charge him if the shock checks out fine. That would be a lot more helpful. That way he has as short of downtime as possible. I mean the guys is disabled, he can't just be pulling them off and on 2-3 times for this.
All I am saying is I can understand why the OP went another way. I've been through this and you just feel ousted.
The fact of the matter is that defect do happen. Instead of assuming everyone is out to screw them why not ship a replacement as soon as OP provided tracking info on the shock in question being on its way back to BMR or Koni. I'm not out to flame BMR, Koni could have just as easily been more accommodating. Take his info and charge him if the shock checks out fine. That would be a lot more helpful. That way he has as short of downtime as possible. I mean the guys is disabled, he can't just be pulling them off and on 2-3 times for this.
All I am saying is I can understand why the OP went another way. I've been through this and you just feel ousted.
Once someone is in possession of TWO sets of product, one set they have gotten free and clear, what is to stop them from selling a set on eBay or Craigslist, and telling the company that sent the replacements on good faith to go suck a lemon? That would potentially leave said company at a loss. They would have given away a set of Koni shocks.
Like I said, this process is fairly simple and very well known. Whether the product failed after 2 years, 2 months, 2 days, or 2 minutes... The warranty covers it without much of a problem. You just have to go through the proper process. The warranty covers defects. Unless the fine print says otherwise, it does not offer a promise of minimal downtime. However, BMR and Koni both offered a way to reduce downtime by sending replacements prior to receiving the defective units. They only required a charge to cover their own asses, that would be refunded.
This is where I feel I must step in and correct you on a few points;
I communicated with the OP outside of this thread multiple times, and that was my first option, as it is our standard return process to ship a replacement product once the tracking is active for the shipping label we provide. Koni directly offered the same. However the OP did not want downtime as the car is his daily driver and is still drivable. I spoke directly with Koni about this issue when it first came up to see what my options were to resolve this. Koni themselves told me it would be best for them to deal direct to the customer with the warranty issue since it is a product they manufacture and not us. They advised me to stay out of the middle of it as it would complicate things. I offered to step in just to take some of the burden off of the OP. I forwarded him a form that had to be filled out by the end user for the warranty claim, as it requires information I cannot provide. I told him if he filled out the form, even if he did not want to deal direct with Koni, that I would still help in getting new shocks out to him, then I would deal with Koni on getting the warranty replacements. My hands were tied without the form being filled out. I have no problem helping or doing what I can, but I cannot front nearly $600 in shocks when the warranty procedure has not even been started.
I am sorry you feel this way about this experience. We literally have hundreds, if not thousands of these combinations out there on cars, with great success. It is very rare we have an issue with Koni's, but when we have, they have always been good about getting it handled. They provided me with the information and procedure necessary immediately, in which I forwarded directly to the customer. I cannot force the customer to follow these procedures. It was not only our policy but that of Koni as well that we cannot send out product without some sort of deposit.
Let me put it this way:
If I were to send the customer out new shocks at no charge, then take back the old ones and send them to Koni for warranty inspection, what would then be my course of action if Koni called me to say they determined that the cause of failure was an installation issue and they would not cover it. Should we be liable to cover the cost of the shocks then? The customer definitely would not want me to call him at this point and tell him he has to pay for the second set of shocks.
I am not really sure what the correct answer is here. Koni and myself both offered to remedy the situation in the same manner. We provided the information necessary to move forward with the process. I never received any further communication. So I have no way of knowing if the customer finished the claim directly with Koni or not. So if I am wrong by handling this how I did I am sorry, but I really do not know what else could have been done in this situation.
I communicated with the OP outside of this thread multiple times, and that was my first option, as it is our standard return process to ship a replacement product once the tracking is active for the shipping label we provide. Koni directly offered the same. However the OP did not want downtime as the car is his daily driver and is still drivable. I spoke directly with Koni about this issue when it first came up to see what my options were to resolve this. Koni themselves told me it would be best for them to deal direct to the customer with the warranty issue since it is a product they manufacture and not us. They advised me to stay out of the middle of it as it would complicate things. I offered to step in just to take some of the burden off of the OP. I forwarded him a form that had to be filled out by the end user for the warranty claim, as it requires information I cannot provide. I told him if he filled out the form, even if he did not want to deal direct with Koni, that I would still help in getting new shocks out to him, then I would deal with Koni on getting the warranty replacements. My hands were tied without the form being filled out. I have no problem helping or doing what I can, but I cannot front nearly $600 in shocks when the warranty procedure has not even been started.
I am sorry you feel this way about this experience. We literally have hundreds, if not thousands of these combinations out there on cars, with great success. It is very rare we have an issue with Koni's, but when we have, they have always been good about getting it handled. They provided me with the information and procedure necessary immediately, in which I forwarded directly to the customer. I cannot force the customer to follow these procedures. It was not only our policy but that of Koni as well that we cannot send out product without some sort of deposit.
Let me put it this way:
If I were to send the customer out new shocks at no charge, then take back the old ones and send them to Koni for warranty inspection, what would then be my course of action if Koni called me to say they determined that the cause of failure was an installation issue and they would not cover it. Should we be liable to cover the cost of the shocks then? The customer definitely would not want me to call him at this point and tell him he has to pay for the second set of shocks.
I am not really sure what the correct answer is here. Koni and myself both offered to remedy the situation in the same manner. We provided the information necessary to move forward with the process. I never received any further communication. So I have no way of knowing if the customer finished the claim directly with Koni or not. So if I am wrong by handling this how I did I am sorry, but I really do not know what else could have been done in this situation.
Last edited by Wheelman916; 06-19-2014 at 01:01 PM.
06-19-2014, 06:32 PM
#31
This is where I feel I must step in and correct you on a few points;
I communicated with the OP outside of this thread multiple times, and that was my first option, as it is our standard return process to ship a replacement product once the tracking is active for the shipping label we provide. Koni directly offered the same. However the OP did not want downtime as the car is his daily driver and is still drivable. I spoke directly with Koni about this issue when it first came up to see what my options were to resolve this. Koni themselves told me it would be best for them to deal direct to the customer with the warranty issue since it is a product they manufacture and not us. They advised me to stay out of the middle of it as it would complicate things. I offered to step in just to take some of the burden off of the OP. I forwarded him a form that had to be filled out by the end user for the warranty claim, as it requires information I cannot provide. I told him if he filled out the form, even if he did not want to deal direct with Koni, that I would still help in getting new shocks out to him, then I would deal with Koni on getting the warranty replacements. My hands were tied without the form being filled out. I have no problem helping or doing what I can, but I cannot front nearly $600 in shocks when the warranty procedure has not even been started.
I am sorry you feel this way about this experience. We literally have hundreds, if not thousands of these combinations out there on cars, with great success. It is very rare we have an issue with Koni's, but when we have, they have always been good about getting it handled. They provided me with the information and procedure necessary immediately, in which I forwarded directly to the customer. I cannot force the customer to follow these procedures. It was not only our policy but that of Koni as well that we cannot send out product without some sort of deposit.
Let me put it this way:
If I were to send the customer out new shocks at no charge, then take back the old ones and send them to Koni for warranty inspection, what would then be my course of action if Koni called me to say they determined that the cause of failure was an installation issue and they would not cover it. Should we be liable to cover the cost of the shocks then? The customer definitely would not want me to call him at this point and tell him he has to pay for the second set of shocks.
I am not really sure what the correct answer is here. Koni and myself both offered to remedy the situation in the same manner. We provided the information necessary to move forward with the process. I never received any further communication. So I have no way of knowing if the customer finished the claim directly with Koni or not. So if I am wrong by handling this how I did I am sorry, but I really do not know what else could have been done in this situation.
I communicated with the OP outside of this thread multiple times, and that was my first option, as it is our standard return process to ship a replacement product once the tracking is active for the shipping label we provide. Koni directly offered the same. However the OP did not want downtime as the car is his daily driver and is still drivable. I spoke directly with Koni about this issue when it first came up to see what my options were to resolve this. Koni themselves told me it would be best for them to deal direct to the customer with the warranty issue since it is a product they manufacture and not us. They advised me to stay out of the middle of it as it would complicate things. I offered to step in just to take some of the burden off of the OP. I forwarded him a form that had to be filled out by the end user for the warranty claim, as it requires information I cannot provide. I told him if he filled out the form, even if he did not want to deal direct with Koni, that I would still help in getting new shocks out to him, then I would deal with Koni on getting the warranty replacements. My hands were tied without the form being filled out. I have no problem helping or doing what I can, but I cannot front nearly $600 in shocks when the warranty procedure has not even been started.
I am sorry you feel this way about this experience. We literally have hundreds, if not thousands of these combinations out there on cars, with great success. It is very rare we have an issue with Koni's, but when we have, they have always been good about getting it handled. They provided me with the information and procedure necessary immediately, in which I forwarded directly to the customer. I cannot force the customer to follow these procedures. It was not only our policy but that of Koni as well that we cannot send out product without some sort of deposit.
Let me put it this way:
If I were to send the customer out new shocks at no charge, then take back the old ones and send them to Koni for warranty inspection, what would then be my course of action if Koni called me to say they determined that the cause of failure was an installation issue and they would not cover it. Should we be liable to cover the cost of the shocks then? The customer definitely would not want me to call him at this point and tell him he has to pay for the second set of shocks.
I am not really sure what the correct answer is here. Koni and myself both offered to remedy the situation in the same manner. We provided the information necessary to move forward with the process. I never received any further communication. So I have no way of knowing if the customer finished the claim directly with Koni or not. So if I am wrong by handling this how I did I am sorry, but I really do not know what else could have been done in this situation.
When you ask what should you do if you got the shock back and Koni says it was user error then what? I am going to just assume you missed that in other post.
I don't see how the fact that you have sold a cajillion of them is relevant unless you are trying to say you were doubtful of it being a defect and was a user error... but you know... cool. Good job guys, keep up the good work.
You said he never started the process and filled out the form, he says he did... okay. Your a sponsor on this forum so everyone is going to side with you, so whatever. None of this changes the fact that I still think having to pay up front rather than just provide the information for the possible security charge in the future. The bank would see to it that you got your money if you had to make the charge and someone was trying to screw with you.
You're not going to agree with me, and that's fine. I just think you, Koni, or fill in the blank here company X, should remember that sometimes people just can't yank a part off and send it back, or charge another X amount of dollars, and it is a lot for them. Treat people the way you would like to be treated I always say.
Last edited by My6speedZ; 06-19-2014 at 09:21 PM.
06-20-2014, 08:15 AM
#32
For avoiding further argument and such, I will just leave off this conversation by saying that I did everything I could possibly do on my end. There were other factors involved that I have omitted for the sake of professionalism, so I will leave it at this.
06-20-2014, 08:25 PM
#34
Here's my advice (and yes, I run BMR products and am a mod for the site - but neither of them keep me from stating my opinion, which could be negative if a sponsor were treating people like ****).
That said, I don't think BMR handled this wrong. It sounds like there was an issue with the shock and it was on the car. The issue is that it does take effort and money to remove the defective product and I can understand the OP's original issue with having to deal with that at all. Unfortunately, BMR can't do anything about that. They aren't going to fly out and repair the car.
And that's the real issue here. Anytime you buy products mail order or do work yourself or have that work sourced through a third party, this kind of issue is always a possibility. There's nothing really that can be done outside of what BMR offered.
That said, I don't think BMR handled this wrong. It sounds like there was an issue with the shock and it was on the car. The issue is that it does take effort and money to remove the defective product and I can understand the OP's original issue with having to deal with that at all. Unfortunately, BMR can't do anything about that. They aren't going to fly out and repair the car.
And that's the real issue here. Anytime you buy products mail order or do work yourself or have that work sourced through a third party, this kind of issue is always a possibility. There's nothing really that can be done outside of what BMR offered.