I understand than Bilsteins, KONI and the like are superior quality. I was pretty happy with my high mile De Carbons.... surprised really that the ride was as good as it was with 150k on it.
That said, Im rebuilding my front end and on a tight budget... so I purchased a set of 16k mile De Carbons from a member here on the site for the freshening.

About 2 years back I bought a pair of unused NOS DeCarbons for the rears. Combined with new LCA's and panhard bar, the improvement was excellent.


So,why does everyone HATE De Carbons?

 

Once you ride in a car with said bilstiens or konis you will quickly know why everyone hates the decarbons.
You won't believe the difference.

 

Yea, Im sure its a night/day difference....just couldn't swing the extra dough this time around. I have about $560. invested in the front end rebuild as it is. That's with me doing all the labor except pressing the new bushings out & back in. Had a shop do that for me.

 

I think Johnny is really asking (as well as me) is could you explain to me how it is a night and day difference. That seems to be the default answer to any Bilstein/Koni fanboy. I have 164k on my decarbons and they feel great to me, they handle well, go through road imperfections with ease, and seem to dampen the front end of the car very well for my 19 year old shocks that everyone seems to hate on. Now don't get me wrong, I have front Koni Str.t's sitting in my bedroom begging to be put on my car because I really want to experience this "night and day" difference everyone seems to be speaking about, but replacing my shocks is not on top of my to-do list because I think decarbons do their job well and won't be a drastic difference from Str.ts. Now sports are in a league of their own I know that. If someone could voice their first-hand experience from decarbons vs Bilstein/Koni, that would be awesome, and why decarbons are so bad.

I had Monroe Sensa-tracs for the rear of my car when I bought it...and I can say that those were so bad that they were dangerous. From those to decarbons, decarbons retain their valving much, much better and longer.

 

It's my understanding that the DeCarbons are actually good shocks, it's just that they were valved for the OE springs, on a car that's riding at OE height. Any deviation from that, seems to deteriorate their ability to dampen the ride.

FWIW, I installed a set of Eibach Pro-Kit springs on my '96 Z/28 back when the car was a couple of months old (I'm the original owner). My reasoning for not changing the shocks, was that A) GM claimed they spent a ton of time and money engineering the DeCarbons for the car; and B) The shocks had all of 5-600 miles on them, when I did the spring swap. I thought the ride was OK. HOWEVER.......

A few years later, I pulled the DeCarbons, and threw in a set of the "SLP Bilsteins". And yes, the difference in ride quality was indeed, "night and day". A couple of years ago, just for grins, I installed a set of the Strano springs and Koni shocks. They handle the bumps well, and ride very nicely, with a good balance of ride and handling.

 

i found some junkyard kyb gas a just and they were way better then my decarboned

 

If you like the stock soft mushy ride then the Decarbons are what you want.

 

You can search for reviews as there are many out there, heres a couple I dug up with a search:
Koni:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...-sa-4-4-a.html
(my review years ago in this thread) https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...-all-hype.html

Bilstien:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...ther-mods.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...hd-review.html

The Koni SA's truly are like driving a different car, they not only change the ride and feel, but they change the balance and how the car handles and make the car 1000x more solid.

 

how did you spend 560 on a front end rebuild and not do shocks with doing the labor yourself??? bilsteins and konis provide a much more "connected" feel to the road the car doesnt float around or sway around corers its just a much better feel. its actually hard to describe but once you feel it you will never go back

 

Trust me, I was asking myself that very question.... heres the breakdown

Rock Auto- $320. shipped
All Moog parts
All bushings for LCA & UCA
upper & lower ball joints
outer tie rod ends
also added the Moog problem solvers for the vertical bushings

Used 16k mile DeCarbons $100. shipped

Local Shop for pressing out/in bushings and lower ball joints $140.

see how easy that was....

I understand what youre saying about the feel of the car... I have had 7 Corvettes and a couple of 2002 Z06's and I know what that connected with the road feel is like. On the other hand, I never had the "floaty" feeling in this Z28. Its always felt solid and really squeak/noise free.... I decided to do the overhaul mainly because of the miles being 150k and then reading about the vertical LCA bushings failing...which mine were torn. Also found the outer tie rod ends pretty loose...just decided to do everything all at once.

 

decarbons have too much compression damping and not enough rebound damping. Bilsteins run smoother and allow the car to handle better. No comparison in my opinion.

 

This makes sense for the Koni STR-T's also. Just replaced original 90k mile deCarbons with the Konis & put the first few miles on the new shocks today. Car feels much firmer/secure with hard turns. However, I've bottomed out (hitting the plastic radiator air deflector) 3-4 times where the deCarbons never let this happen. So while much more sporty & firm of a ride, it does seem that the compression damping is stiffer on the old deCarbons then on the new Koni's, but they must make up for it a little deeper in the stroke to give the firm feel.

 

okay my .02...

let me give you an analogy or metaphor or whatever you wanna call it.

I got a friend who smokes a crapload of cigars and his gf at the time kept complaining that he stunk BIG TIME.

My friend never smelled what she smelled, do you know why?

Because he was USED TO THE SMELL.

picture an f-body owner who always had decarbon shocks, as far as they're concerned, the ride is great...why?

because they're used to it.

doesn't mean that it's a better ride.

there's also the issue of human beings convincing themselves that what they got is the BEST the world has to offer...why? Because they have to justify their decision.

I've had two 4th-gens, first one was a 93Z28 with a 6-speed, I was convinced by many members on another Camaro board circa 1995-1998 that the decarbons were crap and the best setup to buy was Bilsteins and Eibach Pro kits and 35mm front/25mm rear swaybars.

HORRIBLE mistake.

I'm not bragging but I'm a VERY aggressive driver and bottomline my 93Z28 was damn scary to take into the twisties, huge understeer ans the car would fishtail out of the corners and bottom out and the ride was ROUGH!

Rough as in bouncy, stiff, no solid feel, it was a scary car to drive.

I listened to other folks on that site and told me for the money that I should get the KYB adjustables so I did...

same story, still rough ride, understeer, fishtailing out of turns, scary!!!

in 2003 I got my '01 SS 6-spd, I went straight to Sam Strano, he gave me GREAT advice, and I mean great coming from a now 6 or 7 time SCCA autocross champion who makes his own springs and swaybars based on what he learned from the track, so I immediately went with the Koni dual adjustables front and rear, hollow 35mm fronts/22 mm rear swaybars, 600lb front springs via GC Coilovers(not sams choice but I choise to get the GC kit, Sam told me the 600lb fronts would work), and 150lb rears.

Per Sam I adjusted the shocks @4 sweeps from full stiff and rears 3/4 turn from full soft.

My car is a BEAST in the twisties. Still there's understeer but that's due to my 17" front wheels & 18" rears. our 4-gen f-bodies handle much better with same sized tires and wheels on all 4 corners.

Anyway, my car is lowered, aftermarket front BBK, definitely much more modified than most of the other suspensions out there but let me tell you that the car in the city has a nice firm but comfy and not spine compressing characteristics AND when pushed hard my car handles and tends to shock everybody with it's handling prowess.

Much more comfortable driving around the city than the deCarbons could ever be.

the Koni SA's not adjusted feel like the Bilstein HD's but once you start adjusting them and adjusting them correctly you will have a car that will handle better than your driving skills can handle.

End of rant.

Oh...

In hindsight I should've just gotten Sam's springs in the first place, the GC Coilover kit wasn't necessary for my applications...but I like the fact that I can adjust the ride height anytime I want to...AND, I've adjusted the ride height only twice since 2005.

 

Carlos, good post! But keep one thing in the back of your mind....as time goes by, new products come along, and improve our cars. I, too, had a Bilstein/Eibach set-up for several years, as it was the best available at the time. IIRC, Sam hadn't yet gone into business when I first bought my car, in 1995. (or if he had, I hadn't yet heard of him)

 

Another thing to keep in mind, is how many miles most of our cars are racking up now... Mine is at 150k.... decarbons or any shock with that many miles is going to feel like a sponge next to a modern performance shock.
I took the car out the other day at lunch.... just couldn't wait for the alignment.... and it was very solid and quiet when hitting bumps etc. I got it up to 65mph and it did really well... I guess I got it pretty close when putting it back together... I cant wait until tomorrow after the alignment!!

 

Ah I love everyone's thoughts and opinions into this. Makes me think and realize how straight-minded I can get hah. I had no idea the decarbons were so sought after and fine tuned by GM in the 4th gens, at least for stock springs that is. I'm running stock springs with decarbons in the front, maybe that's why I feel alright with them on my car. I've only ridden in a drag setup 4th gen and a stock 4th gen which is mine, and mine handles much, much better than the drag setup; however, if I sat in an autocross setup one, I might change my mind on how mine handles...

Gotta get my Str.ts in...

 

back in 95-98 when I was going thru all this though, the Koni DA's were available for the 4th-gens as they were the 1LE option, they were available during that time that I was searching for my 93 but I was told by many on this other f-body site that the Koni's were a waste of money and that I'd be fine with the Bilstein's, which was actually part of the Option 2 SLP package.

I figured these guys knew what they were talking about...but in reality it was their opinion based on what they EXPERIENCED so as far as they were concerned it was the right choice so I figured who am I to argue?

I should have argued LOL!!!

I hsd the Bilstein's, the KYB AGX's, and the Tokiko's on my 93 as well as the factoey decarbons and really, only the Bilstein's were decent compared to the other two and ONLY if they were on factory springs...but all were better than the decarbons, and all three aftermarket shocks blew out in about 20K miles due to them not designed for lowered springed f-bodies.

again, this was my experience and I'm sure glad I decided to get off of my *** and talk to Sam once I got my 01SS.

good luck with whatever you decide to do!