driveshafts
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From: mechanicsville,va
driveshafts ok i have a 2000 z it has a steel driveshaft in it well im assuming its steel because it has rust on it anyways which is better steel one or aluminum ?
if it has a complete covering of rust it must be steel, but that doesn't make sense, all LS1 cars should be Aluminum, only the v6 got the steel shaft that year.
steel can handle higher horsepower, aluminum is lighter so more power makes it to the wheels, unless you get into higher horsepower numbers the stock aluminum is the better option.
steel can handle higher horsepower, aluminum is lighter so more power makes it to the wheels, unless you get into higher horsepower numbers the stock aluminum is the better option.
M6/3.42 got aluminum,A4/3.23 got aluminum,A4/2.73 got steel. The steel shaft is one of the identifying features of a 2.73 rear gear car.
There have been posts about a TSB concerning steel shafts. Steel shafts were replaced with aluminum shafts when customers complained of vibration in the car.
There have been posts about a TSB concerning steel shafts. Steel shafts were replaced with aluminum shafts when customers complained of vibration in the car.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
if it has a complete covering of rust it must be steel, but that doesn't make sense, all LS1 cars should be Aluminum, only the v6 got the steel shaft that year.
steel can handle higher horsepower, aluminum is lighter so more power makes it to the wheels, unless you get into higher horsepower numbers the stock aluminum is the better option.
steel can handle higher horsepower, aluminum is lighter so more power makes it to the wheels, unless you get into higher horsepower numbers the stock aluminum is the better option.
Both stock driveshafts are JUNK. The auminum ones tend to break more often but that because there were more of them and they were on all the m6 cars. Those facts don't make the stock steel driveshaft better in any way. If you plan on modding your car, address the driveshaft before it breaks and tears up stuff.
Theres a powertain shop here in Lauderdale that custom builds aluminum shafts that handle 1000 HP....they build them all day long for drag cars down here. Also, Strange Engineering recommended them to me for any work I needed done on my Strange 12 bolt rear-end....axles, gears, bearings, seals...etc....
I had them replace my passengers side axle seal a few weeks ago.
They charge $435.00 for a custom built aluminum shaft that's rated for 1000 HP. Installed price.
Im getting one in a couple months......
FWIW......When I had 500 RWHP/500 RWTQ.....with my 427ci for about the first 8 years, my factory aluminum shaft held up. But it did break while idling through a parking lot one day. I then put a factory stock steel one in. That broke 4 years later while doing 150mph............I put another factory steel one in. I have that one now still behind my new 390ci.
.
I had them replace my passengers side axle seal a few weeks ago.
They charge $435.00 for a custom built aluminum shaft that's rated for 1000 HP. Installed price.
Im getting one in a couple months......
FWIW......When I had 500 RWHP/500 RWTQ.....with my 427ci for about the first 8 years, my factory aluminum shaft held up. But it did break while idling through a parking lot one day. I then put a factory stock steel one in. That broke 4 years later while doing 150mph............I put another factory steel one in. I have that one now still behind my new 390ci.
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Dumbest response award goes to.....
Both stock driveshafts are JUNK. The auminum ones tend to break more often but that because there were more of them and they were on all the m6 cars. Those facts don't make the stock steel driveshaft better in any way. If you plan on modding your car, address the driveshaft before it breaks and tears up stuff.
Both stock driveshafts are JUNK. The auminum ones tend to break more often but that because there were more of them and they were on all the m6 cars. Those facts don't make the stock steel driveshaft better in any way. If you plan on modding your car, address the driveshaft before it breaks and tears up stuff.
01ssreda4 for being rude. Trending Topics
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
If only you could ban everyone in the world you didn't like the world would be perfect now wouldn't it?
You said steel is stronger. That's an incorrect blanket statement. In a conversation of stock driveshafts that can easily be interpreted the wrong way. Both stock shafts are junk. Second, most aluminum shafts are twice the thickness of an equivalent steel or CM counterpart. So strength is similar, weight is less, cost is more. Generally speaking of course. Big advantage of lighter material, you said more power to the wheels, but you missed, less chance for vibrations and higher critical rpm speed. The above mentioned steel shaft that failed at 150mph likely failed due to over running it and it self destructed based on rpm not power. And btw, not ONLY v6 cars got steel shafts, some v8s did as well.
But we appreciate your input on the subject matter daniel, thanks for playing!
You said steel is stronger. That's an incorrect blanket statement. In a conversation of stock driveshafts that can easily be interpreted the wrong way. Both stock shafts are junk. Second, most aluminum shafts are twice the thickness of an equivalent steel or CM counterpart. So strength is similar, weight is less, cost is more. Generally speaking of course. Big advantage of lighter material, you said more power to the wheels, but you missed, less chance for vibrations and higher critical rpm speed. The above mentioned steel shaft that failed at 150mph likely failed due to over running it and it self destructed based on rpm not power. And btw, not ONLY v6 cars got steel shafts, some v8s did as well.
But we appreciate your input on the subject matter daniel, thanks for playing!
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Joined: Oct 2014
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From: the border
I have a custom aluminum one from Houston driveshafts..
It was in my car along time ago when I bought my car with 480rwhp lt4... when I switched to my ls2 turbo setup I kept the shaft and it is good as can be.
If you want something made there are plenty of shops to get you on the road.
It was in my car along time ago when I bought my car with 480rwhp lt4... when I switched to my ls2 turbo setup I kept the shaft and it is good as can be.
If you want something made there are plenty of shops to get you on the road.
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Joined: Jan 2015
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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
The "Vibration" is due to the shaft twisting due to torque! Think "Hollow A/R Bar"! This puts the U-Joints out of phase{they are Cardan not CV}. At over about 140mph,the shaft's harmonics start increasing to the point where it snaps! It's all about torsional rigidity[M of E of material,cross-sectional dimensions]. Before I ran Mosport,replaced it with a CF shaft.Had no wish to"remodel"the interior(or myself)!!
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Critical speed is critical speed, torque doesn't effect it. Someone has a nice little drawing showing common DS sizes and lengths and their acceptable rpm ranges. Once over that threshold, harmonics create destruction.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2015
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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Will you agree,greater torque=greater twist?! The harmonics increase as the twist increases? You could spin the DS assembly at any RPM,if harmonics were absent! Torque output=aero drag!
The "Vibration" is due to the shaft twisting due to torque! Think "Hollow A/R Bar"! This puts the U-Joints out of phase{they are Cardan not CV}. At over about 140mph,the shaft's harmonics start increasing to the point where it snaps! It's all about torsional rigidity[M of E of material,cross-sectional dimensions]. Before I ran Mosport,replaced it with a CF shaft.Had no wish to"remodel"the interior(or myself)!!
Op get a DS made by a sponsor and go aluminum, I run CF but I got a steal on it and was going for max weight savings. A good alum shaft will be fine for you.
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Joined: Jan 2015
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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Yes,the DS has a natural[resonance]frequency,just like a guitar string! BUT,the question is,what force drives this? "Ex Nihilo"?! To answer this, lets look at what the Cardan joints are doing. If the input & output shaft are not parallel in the same plane,then there is variance in the angular velocity between them during a single revolution! The equations of motion showing this sine function are readily available on the 'net,so no need to repeat here! Now our DS's are double Cardans that have the joints 90 degs. out of phase to cancel this variance. However,the same iff conditions apply to the intermediate shaft! Any deviance from parallel in the same plane produces changes in angular velocity of the intermediate! Let's wheel in Sir Isaac & N-2! A change in velocity is acceleration which requires a force! We are in the"Clockwork Universe" of Newton,not the "Cloud-Cuckoo-land"of Heisenberg! The magnitude of this force increase with angularity. What about the direction of this force vector? The answer is provided by the Cross-Product which calculates torque in Matrix Algebra.The resultant force vector is at RIGHT ANGLES!! THIS is the force that"plucks the string"! Now,"critical speed"! All materials deform under load;STRESS=STRAIN! The stress is the force of aero resistance which increases as the square of velocity. The strain is the torque applied to the DS to balance the strain! This torque twists the DS SO THE JOINTS ARE NO LONGER 90 DEGS. OUT OF PHASE! This introduces an increased force as now the output shaft is no longer in synch with the input. The amplitude of the vibration increases to the point of failure! Q.E.D.
Yes,the DS has a natural[resonance]frequency,just like a guitar string! BUT,the question is,what force drives this? "Ex Nihilo"?! To answer this, lets look at what the Cardan joints are doing. If the input & output shaft are not parallel in the same plane,then there is variance in the angular velocity between them during a single revolution! The equations of motion showing this sine function are readily available on the 'net,so no need to repeat here! Now our DS's are double Cardans that have the joints 90 degs. out of phase to cancel this variance. However,the same iff conditions apply to the intermediate shaft! Any deviance from parallel in the same plane produces changes in angular velocity of the intermediate! Let's wheel in Sir Isaac & N-2! A change in velocity is acceleration which requires a force! We are in the"Clockwork Universe" of Newton,not the "Cloud-Cuckoo-land"of Heisenberg! The magnitude of this force increase with angularity. What about the direction of this force vector? The answer is provided by the Cross-Product which calculates torque in Matrix Algebra.The resultant force vector is at RIGHT ANGLES!! THIS is the force that"plucks the string"! Now,"critical speed"! All materials deform under load;STRESS=STRAIN! The stress is the force of aero resistance which increases as the square of velocity. The strain is the torque applied to the DS to balance the strain! This torque twists the DS SO THE JOINTS ARE NO LONGER 90 DEGS. OUT OF PHASE! This introduces an increased force as now the output shaft is no longer in synch with the input. The amplitude of the vibration increases to the point of failure! Q.E.D.
Yes,the DS has a natural[resonance]frequency,just like a guitar string! BUT,the question is,what force drives this? "Ex Nihilo"?! To answer this, lets look at what the Cardan joints are doing. If the input & output shaft are not parallel in the same plane,then there is variance in the angular velocity between them during a single revolution! The equations of motion showing this sine function are readily available on the 'net,so no need to repeat here! Now our DS's are double Cardans that have the joints 90 degs. out of phase to cancel this variance. However,the same iff conditions apply to the intermediate shaft! Any deviance from parallel in the same plane produces changes in angular velocity of the intermediate! Let's wheel in Sir Isaac & N-2! A change in velocity is acceleration which requires a force! We are in the"Clockwork Universe" of Newton,not the "Cloud-Cuckoo-land"of Heisenberg! The magnitude of this force increase with angularity. What about the direction of this force vector? The answer is provided by the Cross-Product which calculates torque in Matrix Algebra.The resultant force vector is at RIGHT ANGLES!! THIS is the force that"plucks the string"! Now,"critical speed"! All materials deform under load;STRESS=STRAIN! The stress is the force of aero resistance which increases as the square of velocity. The strain is the torque applied to the DS to balance the strain! This torque twists the DS SO THE JOINTS ARE NO LONGER 90 DEGS. OUT OF PHASE! This introduces an increased force as now the output shaft is no longer in synch with the input. The amplitude of the vibration increases to the point of failure! Q.E.D.
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
He talks like he is an engineer. All book brains and zero common sense! What good is brains if you can't actually apply it properly? If it's not stated in the book how, then they usually can't figure it out.....
Lol I am an engineer and that is truly what happens. I have friends all the time that cant visualize something outside of a book because they have no real world experience. Seeing how things work in the real world is just as important and being able to explain them in simple terms is even more important.