pozesd99'

iTrader: (3)

Does anyone make a full front suspension bushing kit? Dont need anything for the rear... Preferably an energy suspension kit. I see alot of full kits for rear and front but the car has aftermarket rear control arms as well as new bushing for rear sway bar

JD_AMG

Poly bushings in control arms = binding and possibly breaking the control arm.
Get rubber bushings, better ride, better handling (because the control arm can actually articulate like its supposed to and not bind and stick).
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=18&ModelID=7
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=18&ModelID=7

pozesd99'

iTrader: (3)

Thank you sir! Do i melt the old ones out and press new ones in?

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

I disagree with the rubber over poly comment. If you don't want to grease the bushings, rubber may be the way to go, but if you are willing to grease poly regularly, I have found(and popular experience seems to agree) that suspensions typically articulate much better with fully-rotating poly bushings and the bushing material itself deflects far less and is generally far more durable.

Most rubber bushings I have experienced are actually fused to the metal parts, resulting in a suspension that doesn't really articulate, but moves as much as the rubber bushing will twist. Take the suspension apart, leaving just the control arms, and you are left with an arm that is obviously "sprung" by the stiffness of the rubber bushing. With properly greased poly, the same arm will simply fall straight down by gravity, and present next to zero resistance to swing back up. This is also why there are usually cut or burned out and can't be simpler removed as with the poly equivalent.

If the mfg of your poly bushings doesn't provide them, drill and tap for zerk fittings to enable quick and easy lube of these bushings. IMO, properly implemented poly is better in all areas save perhaps for NVH. If smooth ride is absolutely tops on your priority list, go rubber..but performance handling can't be at the top of that same list.

I say the above assuming you are buying good poly bushings from a reputable mfg.

Am I missing something?

Corvett z07

iTrader: (2)

Are you missing something? - yes and no. As far as I know, there are two places on a 4th gen F-Body that you don't want poly bushings in. That is the front lower control arm vertical bushing only, and in the rear lower control arms. On the rear lower control arms, you could still run poly on one side and rubber on the other and still be fine IMO. Any other place would be okay to have poly bushings in place of the rubber.

The reason why you don't want poly in those places is because of the articulation of the suspension. The front vertical bushing is constantly fighting suspension articulation because of the way the bushing is mounted in that area, which is a bad idea for poly. The rear lower control arms need to move in two different directions, vertical and horizontal. This is because of the panhard bar design and how it functions. The rear lower control arms move very little in the horizontal direction, but enough to where I'd rather have rubber than poly.

I also agree with you, poly is very bind-free when greased properly. I did have poly in my rear lower control arms at one point and I only had the chassis side bolted in and torqued down to spec and it moved up and down pretty effortlessly.

If you know how the suspension works in conjunction with other parts, poly would be fine in places that articulate in only one direction and if the bushing is mounted in the correct direction. On my current car, many people use solid bushings in certain areas and it's much better than the rubber that came from the factory, albeit you can put a solid bushing in that specific area on that specific car and it still works as it should

redhernandez

Has anyone ever tried SuperPro bushings?

95wannabe

iTrader: (20)

As others said above...This is why you don't want to use a vertical poly bushing in the front LCA.



If you don't want rod ends, use the newer Moog rubber bushing they call Problem Solver.
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/moog-k200790

Heres a pic for comparison of the std vs the problem solver



And yes, you can order one or all bushings from Strano. Just give him a call.

Corvett z07

iTrader: (2)

^

There are a couple more members on this forum who have had their lower control arm crack in half because they had poly bushings in that vertical bushing. That place is a definite no-no when considering a poly replacement

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

Thanks for the clarification and good info, guys. I obviously am not working on a F-body. Seemed like a summary dismissal of poly and just didn't want that out there...Poly has its place.

blackandgold

iTrader: (2)

I'm super happy with the roto-joints on my front LCAs. I won't totally dismiss poly as a bushing material, but I don't feel that there is a location on the f-body where poly is the best option.

Corvett z07

iTrader: (2)

Sway bar bushings and endlinks! I had to be the smartass

Poly definitely has its place, more or less on different cars. But hey, I believe the McClaren P1 has rubber bushings all around. Wicked car with a completely different suspension geometry obviously, yet still be compliantish with rubber all around

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

I wonder if we are dumbing the conversation down by simply using the term "rubber." It occurs to me that with the ability to mix and modify modern synthetic rubbers, one could achieve poly-like properties and still call it rubber. And in theory everything in between is doable.

In the context of the McLaren example, with the $ that goes into that car, I presume that they are using something better than cheap domestic(US) auto mfg rubber. I'm in this forum so I'll call it "cheap GM rubber." To me, that seems to be a big part of the problem..Cost control at the mfg. Perhaps if they put something better in there, we wouldn't be talking about poly at all. Of course I am silly car guy so different almost always has at least the allure of better..And I'd be in here chatting about Delrin or HMPE.



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2ToeRacing

iTrader: (5)

Not to take away from what we're talking about,.....how does "roto-joints" hold up to everyday driving??? Would they be a better "part" to use instead of poly/rubber??

JD_AMG

To further show what everyone else is saying, this is what happens worst case scenario when poly binds, something has to give, and it might be the control arm:



Too many people dismiss rubber thinking that the flexing it does is bad, when its purposely made to flex in most applications to allow the suspension to move properly.

blackandgold

iTrader: (2)

Wish I could tell you, my car only saw about 3k miles this year. For the most part though I don't think I've read too many negative reviews of them.

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

Well that is hard to argue with(the pics and busted arm). I can see that design is not good for poly--no way to keep it greased at least. And of course if it need some "multi-directional" movement that's even worse.

On the CTS-V I am *cough* gradually building, the majority of bushings are of the typical type you would imagine in a standard suspension setup--that is, all the arms seem to be designed to articulate along a single, fixed axis, and the aftermarket stuff integrate grease zerks to boot. So all poly all day except for maybe trans mount. Occurs to me that IRS makes this simpler. One of the few things I guess IRS makes simpler.

Corvett z07

iTrader: (2)

IRS defintely makes things simpler as articulation should only go in one direction, that's when poly shines and tightens up things a bit with more responsiveness from the suspension. As seen with the pictures, poly should not go in some places, while other places would be fine.

As with the McLaren example, you've made a good point. I honestly have no idea what kind of "rubber" they're using. I just saw a video that mentioned that the P1 had all rubber bushings, whatever that means. Could be regular bushings or could be a synthetic blend that uses rubber as the base material with other materials that make it stiffer while still being able to call it rubber

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

Actually, if you're talking multi link type IRS poly makes things worse. Most multi link IRS types require multiaxis movement, such as camber and trailing links. They often require both rotation around the bolt and simultaneous twisting along the length of the bolt as camber goes negative in compression, and positive in rebound.

I can confirm this to be the truth as I've experienced it myself.

Corvett z07

iTrader: (2)

^ good post, I wasn't even aware of that. Looks like it takes even the smallest amount of multi-axis movement in a suspension and you would disregard poly as being an upgrade. Quite interesting. Might have to use that video if there's any more questions on poly bushings being superior to others

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

I enjoyed that video. Spherical ends really are the end-all in a lot of cases but AFAIK, not available to my application. The V setup does include a trailing arm..and I did get the poly for that arm as well as everything else. Once I get it back in the air to tighten everything up, I will definitely pull the coilovers and run the suspension through the full motion to see if I've stepped backwards.