1le swaybar question
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From: Chicago
1le swaybar question Quick question about these bars:
I hear pretty good things about them except that they were designed to cause a little understeer in hard cornering situations. My question, is what if I only used the front 1le bar, but left the stock bar which is less rigid? Would that help balance things out a bit more?
I'll also be doing dms springs and bilstein hd's if that helps.
Thanks!
I hear pretty good things about them except that they were designed to cause a little understeer in hard cornering situations. My question, is what if I only used the front 1le bar, but left the stock bar which is less rigid? Would that help balance things out a bit more?
I'll also be doing dms springs and bilstein hd's if that helps.
Thanks!
You'd be much better of doing front and rear sway bars. My car is a factory 1LE. It has an automatic though, which is rare for that option. So, they left the stock sized unit in the rear and a 32mm in front. I never did like the way it handled. With the way the factory had it, the set up was for understeer,and also their thinking in going that way was because it had an automatic. I replaced the factory rear swaybar with a 21mm unit that they put in M6 optioned cars. It helped out a bunch. You can cure alot of your handling by changing your alignment settings. They factory uses settings conducive to understeer for safety on your average driver. You need to use the appropriate sawybar bushings. The 1LE uses hard durmoter rubber bushings, that are harder than your basic OEM setup. I'd avoid polyurethane like a crackwhore with crabs.
Try these guys:http://www.globalwest.net/
Part numbers for 1LE bushings
26039956 front bushing
10235886 rear swaybar bushing for 21mm
Try these guys:http://www.globalwest.net/
Part numbers for 1LE bushings
26039956 front bushing
10235886 rear swaybar bushing for 21mm
Polyurethane cold compresses. It also cold flows and binds. So over time, you get alot of play in the unit because it compresses. That offsets any of the positives that the bar ever gave you. It's self defeating. Delrin is a much better material, but I couldn't find it, so I used harder rubber bushings.
sawedoff, you do realize the ONLY difference in rear sway bars between 4th gen years and models was in '93. The '93 1LE rear bar was a 21mm ... since then, they've all been 19s ... 1LE and non 1LE ...
Blk98Brd ... to reduce understeer, rule of thumb is to stiffen the rear. Ever notice that under even throttle the car plows like a John Deere, but throttle on and the tail gets happy?
Partly because of horsepower, but a lot of it is because as the weight transitions to the rear and the car is all rolled over, the LCA bushings bind in the chassis mounting points and this increases spring rate. The friction of the bushing binding in the mount reduces the free movement ... added effective spring rate.
More rear stiffness equals less understeer or oversteer ... that's why rod ended LCAs are more predictable ... the spring rate is all built into the spring, sway bar, shock combination and not subject to variable friction coefficients.
Blk98Brd ... to reduce understeer, rule of thumb is to stiffen the rear. Ever notice that under even throttle the car plows like a John Deere, but throttle on and the tail gets happy?
Partly because of horsepower, but a lot of it is because as the weight transitions to the rear and the car is all rolled over, the LCA bushings bind in the chassis mounting points and this increases spring rate. The friction of the bushing binding in the mount reduces the free movement ... added effective spring rate.
More rear stiffness equals less understeer or oversteer ... that's why rod ended LCAs are more predictable ... the spring rate is all built into the spring, sway bar, shock combination and not subject to variable friction coefficients.
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Thanks mitchntx,
I'll be replacing my lca's soon since I believe the one in the right rear has bent. I believe i'm going with the lightweight badz pieces which are rod ended. From what you guys are saying, I should go with a front 1le swaybar with non-poly bushings, a 21mm rear bar, and the rod-ended lca's? Or would the rear 19mm 1le bar be sufficient for street use and a good alignment? Mitchntx, would you also recommend those same bushings from global or something different?
Just making sure all of my suspension components will work together instead of against eachother before I start making my purchases.
I'll be replacing my lca's soon since I believe the one in the right rear has bent. I believe i'm going with the lightweight badz pieces which are rod ended. From what you guys are saying, I should go with a front 1le swaybar with non-poly bushings, a 21mm rear bar, and the rod-ended lca's? Or would the rear 19mm 1le bar be sufficient for street use and a good alignment? Mitchntx, would you also recommend those same bushings from global or something different?
Just making sure all of my suspension components will work together instead of against eachother before I start making my purchases.
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I think you can do poly bushings on the sway bars - the cold flow binding and all that isn't a problem because the swaybar doesn't move. And poly is easier to find than rubber when it comes to non-stock sized sway bar bushings.
i.e. I don't know if it's even possible to get a rubber bushing for the 35mm hollow front sway bar I just picked up from strano. But the poly that comes with it should have no disadvantage compared to rubber.
i.e. I don't know if it's even possible to get a rubber bushing for the 35mm hollow front sway bar I just picked up from strano. But the poly that comes with it should have no disadvantage compared to rubber.
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Those are a LOT of changes all at once. Be careful ...
I'm out of the recommendation game. All I can do is tell someone, who asks, what works for me on my car and me behind the wheel. I got really tired of typing the same thing over and over and over and over, justifying why my setup works.
I didn't go through all the pain and expense in order to prove anything, especially bench racing on the internet. When you have a Pilot Cup shod, 996TT driver come up and say he had to get in my draft to keep up on the straight at TWS, something must be working right ...
Having said that ...
Poly bushings for a sway bar is good. Rod ends, QUALITY ROD ENDS, are good.
Your personal choice of vendors will be based on a lot of factors.
Do your homework ....
I'm out of the recommendation game. All I can do is tell someone, who asks, what works for me on my car and me behind the wheel. I got really tired of typing the same thing over and over and over and over, justifying why my setup works.
I didn't go through all the pain and expense in order to prove anything, especially bench racing on the internet. When you have a Pilot Cup shod, 996TT driver come up and say he had to get in my draft to keep up on the straight at TWS, something must be working right ...
Having said that ...
Poly bushings for a sway bar is good. Rod ends, QUALITY ROD ENDS, are good.
Your personal choice of vendors will be based on a lot of factors.
Do your homework ....
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Originally Posted by mitchntx
sawedoff, you do realize the ONLY difference in rear sway bars between 4th gen years and models was in '93. The '93 1LE rear bar was a 21mm ... since then, they've all been 19s ... 1LE and non 1LE ...
Blk98Brd ... to reduce understeer, rule of thumb is to stiffen the rear. Ever notice that under even throttle the car plows like a John Deere, but throttle on and the tail gets happy?
Partly because of horsepower, but a lot of it is because as the weight transitions to the rear and the car is all rolled over, the LCA bushings bind in the chassis mounting points and this increases spring rate. The friction of the bushing binding in the mount reduces the free movement ... added effective spring rate.
More rear stiffness equals less understeer or oversteer ... that's why rod ended LCAs are more predictable ... the spring rate is all built into the spring, sway bar, shock combination and not subject to variable friction coefficients.
Blk98Brd ... to reduce understeer, rule of thumb is to stiffen the rear. Ever notice that under even throttle the car plows like a John Deere, but throttle on and the tail gets happy?
Partly because of horsepower, but a lot of it is because as the weight transitions to the rear and the car is all rolled over, the LCA bushings bind in the chassis mounting points and this increases spring rate. The friction of the bushing binding in the mount reduces the free movement ... added effective spring rate.
More rear stiffness equals less understeer or oversteer ... that's why rod ended LCAs are more predictable ... the spring rate is all built into the spring, sway bar, shock combination and not subject to variable friction coefficients.
Last edited by sawedoff; Jun 23, 2004 at 09:38 PM.
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From: Regina, SK
Originally Posted by TTopJohn
I think you can do poly bushings on the sway bars - the cold flow binding and all that isn't a problem because the swaybar doesn't move.
If you want to use poly swaybar bushings, then just make a habit of checking them for a deformed oval shape periodically, and plan on replacing the bushings every few years.
Originally Posted by mitchntx
I didn't go through all the pain and expense in order to prove anything, especially bench racing on the internet. When you have a Pilot Cup shod, 996TT driver come up and say he had to get in my draft to keep up on the straight at TWS, something must be working right ...
There's nothing like a somebody who knows how to work with the F-body and get way more than a quarter mile sprint's satisfaction could ever give. They're great cars (fbods). It's kind of a shame that they aren't seen more in this venue.
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thanks trackbird, i'll check that out. as far as the swaybars go however, from what i'm understanding they're almost all the same as my stock 19mm bar. would a 21mm aftermarket bar then be beneficial to balance out the new front 1le?
sorry, I tried a search first but I don't think I was looking inthe right posts or something
sorry, I tried a search first but I don't think I was looking inthe right posts or something
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Originally Posted by John95Z28
Not trying to start a flame war, but I beg to differ with you on that point. Swaybars move when your tires move up and down, so the poly will last forever if you never drive the car. Poly might be easier to find than rubber, but it does have its downsides. Granted poly bushings are more of an issue for LCA's than swaybars, but the demons of cold flow, binding, and squeaking can still quite possibly show up and ruin the party.
If you want to use poly swaybar bushings, then just make a habit of checking them for a deformed oval shape periodically, and plan on replacing the bushings every few years.
If you want to use poly swaybar bushings, then just make a habit of checking them for a deformed oval shape periodically, and plan on replacing the bushings every few years.
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From: Dallas TX
Originally Posted by Blk98Bird
thanks trackbird, i'll check that out. as far as the swaybars go however, from what i'm understanding they're almost all the same as my stock 19mm bar. would a 21mm aftermarket bar then be beneficial to balance out the new front 1le?
sorry, I tried a search first but I don't think I was looking inthe right posts or something
sorry, I tried a search first but I don't think I was looking inthe right posts or something
From everything I've read & heard, a bigger front bar while keeping the stock rear bar is the way to go. Yes, in theory doing that will increase understeer - but in practice on an F-body, when combined with a performance alignment (-.5 to -1 camber, +4.5 caster) it does not. Reason being you gain traction at the front end due to the alignment, more than enough to offset any loss of front end grip from the stiffer bar.
I'll let you know next week - that's when my 35mm bar will be on. Keeping the stock 19mm rear bar.