01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

To be honest with you, I dont know, but I think I would have exhausted my options of adjutments and maybe swaybar changes before giving up on them, but thats just me. What tires do you run and at what psi? Just curious. Also, i cant do fast lane changes, I have Hoosier rear slicks and mt et streets (depending on what wheels i have installed), both have super soft sidewalls and would automatically do poorly.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

I know you cant do them. Thats y i said that. But u did say it felt good going in but didnt push. Big ***** look good but you dont if they are fake or not until you give em a squeeze.

Sway bars may make it better, but they will also make the afcos better too.

79_T/A

iTrader: (1)

I have to disagree, if the shock is properly designed it shouldn't take very much effort to dial in, and should not be tricky to dial in. It should be close out of the box, with minor adjustment for driver taste.


You have that backwards, compression will add harshness, lack of rebound will make the car feel floaty as it can't control the spring. Also, Viking uses incredibly soft spring rates. To keep the car from rolling around and pitching, you need to jack the compression damping and the ride quality goes to ****.

I have to agree with you on all points though. Anyone who pushes these shocks for anything but a mild street/strip car is a salesman out to make money. I don't think their "handling" valved shocks are worth a damn, either. I've had the opportunity to spend the last 2 years working with a shock specialist building shocks for a professional race team along with amateur customers. I took one look at the bogus Viking dyno graphs and laughed. Don't even need to use them to know that most people would be leaving a lot on the table by using them. You want to lower the car on coil-overs and loosen them up for some decent 60 ft times on a mild strip car, Vikings will work for you. Anything beyond that? Lots of better choices you can make.

After all, it's just rebadged QA1 stuff. Same people, same products. Just like how JRI is ex-Penske employees that copied Penske products.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

They do have baseline adjustments for their warrior series, but like with anything there are 2 million variables.


Its quite amazing to me that you posted that and didnt realize it invalidates your entire opinion due to an extreme bias. A metric **** ton of people are happy with Viking warriors....and you know what they do with their cars? Drag race. He bought and/or expected the wrong thing from the wrong product. Call it the salesmans fault, call it his fault I dont care either way, but that's the truth.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

01ssred, i no ur a knowledgable person on this website so anything i say isnt meant to **** you off. But u just said the 2 magic words, DRAG RACE. I know that the warriors are a great drag shock, but in the words of sam strano, he said something that made me really think. The worst shocks make the best drag shocks. Something with poor rebound control will unload and transfer weight. Thats why they are great at the track. They unload. But i tried to make them not unload by doing max rebound. And they still couldnt control it, and someone else said this, "its sad that they couldnt even control that weak 350 spring vs something higher like 550-600."

Ur correct in saying that many like them. Theres also more people on here chasing the straights, not the turns. Im still waiting for someone to come in here and be like, my vikings make the car always fel planted.

As posted earlier on the paper from the manufacturer, they clearly recommend these to be autocross worthy.

Simply put, if u have wanna only go straight and ge able to mess with ride height, these are ur great budget choice. Just my opinion. Amyone who wants to feel planted, look elsewhere.

U r right in saying that somewhere along the line i expected something different. Thats y i posted, so that others may here my opinion and here that these definately cant do what a gas charged can do

79_T/A

iTrader: (1)

Keep digging. If you had any reading comprehension, at all, you would have noticed that I stated they would work ok in the average street/strip combination.

How do you completely fail to see that these shocks are advertised in some places for handling applications? Did you not see the setup guide provided by Viking, with both handling and auto-x baseline adjustments? How can you say he expected the wrong things from the product, when the manufacturer says they are good for it? My problem with the products is that Viking advertises them to be good at everything, when they are not. No shock is good at everything, a shock works best when it is tailored for an application.

An extreme bias? Hardly. The products I deal with on a regular basis have nothing to do with the type of customers that Viking is marketing to. I have no horse in this game, my only issue is with how the products are advertised. Floorman reasonably expected -based on info provided by Viking, and the vendor- that the shocks he purchased would be good for his needs. Clearly they weren't what he was looking for, meaning he was mislead. Floorman was looking for a "planted" and good handling setup. 350lb springs with the Viking shocks isn't going to do that, but they were advertised to do so. That ain't right.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Im the one that brought up the recommended settings and then you respond with "didn't you see the recommended settings?" Really stung me with that one Those settings are at best a joke. How in the hell do you recommend settings when you know NOTHING about a vehicle they are going on? Ya don't. Not to mention spring choice may play a huge role in settings. I love how this man has stock parts on his car and the incorrectly put together piece of the puzzle takes the blame for all of it. Here's the truth and what he asked above, would an fbody, with proper tires, proper sway bars, proper spring rate, and correctly adjusted warrior shocks "feel planted" on the street. **** yes it will. End of story. If you cant see that clearly you are as biased as I originally accused. However, we arent arguing these are not autocross shocks, bc they arent.

pdxmotorhead

I can tell from 1 data point, that Vikings are not in the game on cornering,,,
In almost 20 years of wrenching and tuning road race cars I've never seen a set of them.. You either see pure street shocks or In no particular order:
Koni
Bilstein
Tokico (Usually on the hard to fit Japanese cars)
FOX
Ohlins
And very rarely AFCO (Almost always on a space frame car usually a old Nacar Road race roller converted to GT1. )

I've usually spent more time swapping springs than shocks to get cars to corner. usually lifting them back towards stock ride height because the factory geometry does not play nice when too low.. max drop on most factory suspension is about 2" after that the ackerman and bump steer goes to hell.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

Ok red, hold on a sec. The only stock part left that i have on my car that will affect handling is sway bars. We all no that shocks play more of a role in cornering than sway bars. And i still have stock 17s so im confused to know y u r saying my car isnt properly set up.

Number 2, the shocks couldnt control the 350 springs. You implied a bigger spring would help, how would they help if they cant even handle 350s and max rebound?

Number 3 how will adjusting my shocks control the floaty feel that i felt at times? I was already at 19 R and lowering C would have made the handling even worse


And finally 4, all of my complaints from first post have either been erased or made much better with the konis and afcos, and the only real difference besides the shock is the 600 front springs. Your telling me that a bigger spring up front would have solved my "lazy and behind" feeling while doing quick lane changes, the floaty bridge feel, and my constant ride height changes?

pdxmotorhead

Bushings can make a huge difference as well... FWIW..

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Dude, I made it clear i dont know the answers to your silly questions. I dont do cornering, hence why im simply opening up a possibly of ideas to improve the way the combo responds. I've always had in my mind sway bars play a big roll in cornering and steering response. I have no clue how much better it would have gotten with better sways, but i know it would have made it better. "Feeling planted" is subjective, as is ride quality. Perceptions are individualized. You convinced yourself they wouldnt work and changed. Doesnt mean Im unhappy with mine or feel like my car is unplanted. All opinions, which is what we are discussing.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

They are still advertising the 350 as a good street spring. I never did more than street driving with them so in theory, shouldnt they have been enough since i wasnt doing hard cornering

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

All heim joints out back, new rubber front upper and lower a arms, poly bar mounts and ends.

Red, in ur other post u mentioned that the shocks are the incorrect puzzle piece and they are taking blame. Ur correct, they are wrong and they do take the blame. They are being sold as street strip and competition shocks that couldnt handle a medium spring in everyday driving.

U also mention bias. I was absolutely not biased at first test drive, because i had assumed they would be great because thats what all the sponsors were saying. Even after upping rebound i was still not biased because i was like, o im only halfway.

Writing these posts im not biased either. I used them, put 500 miles on them, and discovered that i was misled and that these shocks wont do what i want. Im writing to inform others on the fence that i drive my car on the street primarily, and do not feel that i got $1200 worth of shocks and springs.

Im no shock expert, but i do know that the afcos and konis got me a hell of a lot closer to my goal than the vikings did. I dont need to know how they work to know that. I drive the car and can feel it. I also know that putting bars on would have made it better, but still wouldnt fix the floaty straight line feel i had at times. Thats a shocks job, not a sway bars job.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Yes, I agree BUT if you combined them with upgraded sways and correct settings would you have been happy is all Im getting at? Guess we will never know. I dont feel like you were being overly picky either. I think even maybe a little more rear spring would have helped??? Whats your new setup rated at?

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Then the real complaint isnt with Viking its with your salesman, who wasnt me!

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

To be honest thats pretty much the morale. I know ur not lashing but u seem to think that bars would have been a big difference. Ur orobably right, but not in a good way. The bars would have done more work than they were intended to and band aided the shocks.

600 front spring, and 150 rear. But remember, the 150 is equal to a 175 on a coilover due to the mounting positions. The 150 mounted on the rear of the axle getting more leverage to do its job easier

79_T/A

iTrader: (1)

I can agree the settings are a joke, and they shouldn't make them. But the fact is, they do make those recommendations. I don't know why you continue to ignore this. He reasonably expected they would be good for his application, based on information provided by the manufacturer.

I also acknowledged the fact that the spring rates were all wrong for his application. Again, he was not sold the correct springs to meet his goals.

What does his stock sway bars have to do with anything? They could work fine in his application if the shocks and springs he was sold did what they were claimed to do. You can't blame his issues on his stock parts. There are plenty of cars with stock sway bars that handle good with a shock and spring chosen for that purpose. Adding increased stiffness sway bars only serves to improve the handling balance of the car.

Would the car be better if you threw more parts at it with the Vikings still on the car? Yes, and I never said it wouldn't. Could it be even more planted than that with a completely different brand of shock? I think so, and I bet vendors who specialize in shocks and springs for these cars would agree. Point is, if he was sold the correct shocks and springs the first time, he would have seen the improvements he was looking for, and the additional parts would only serve to improve the car.

Could he have avoided this situation if he had an intimate knowledge of shock valving and spring rates? Yes, but you shouldn't have to be an expert. You should be able to have a little bit of faith in the manufacturer and vendor to sell you the correct parts for your application.

Listen, we agree this stuff wasn't right for his application. He could have been sold other Viking products that might have been better, but that didn't happen. It's unfortunate that he was lead to believe these products would be good for him. That's my issue with the whole situation. If Viking makes a shock (crusader?) that they intend to be used for a better handling application, don't you think they should they should change the literature of the warrior to reflect this?

I'm really not as biased as you claim I am. Do these shocks have their place? Of course they do. Like I have stated before, they are fine for street/strip applications - I am sure you agree. Clearly they were not for him, but he was led to believe they would be. That is my issue. From the information he gave us, it looks like he really lost out on the deal having to buy new shocks and springs when the Vikings didn't work out for him.

You said it youself, they are not autocross shocks - but it specifically mentions that in the literature. Do you agree that it is misleading? Do you think it's fair that a shock designed for street/strip application is being marketed differently?

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

The 350 spring is a piece. Remember, if the shock couldnt control that, then its not goona control a 550. So the spring debate is mostly a wash. If the shocks didnt feel so lazy at times, i would have tried a bigger spring. But i do know that a bigger spring wont make a non gas charged shock all of a sudden feel better. So im basically saying, the shocks really are only good at one thing and should be marketed towards being a DRAG SHOCK THAT YOU CAN DRIVE HOME ON but if that was their advertising, the wouldnt really sell a whole lot.....y? Because there are already a few of those out there. But no shock out there can do it all, thats y they are marketed by the sponsors as a do it all, so they can sell

79_T/A

iTrader: (1)

Based upon his goals, I think no. The spring is simply too soft to work well in a handling application. Might it improve a little? Yes, but they won't solve the problem of springs that don't have enough rate. His main complaint seemed to be the car bouncing up and down. Sway bars would do nothing to improve that. That means the shock can't control that 350lb spring. You end up chasing youself into a rabbit hole, having to stiffen the shocks to support the car because the springs are too soft. The ride just becomes more harsh but you still never really see a handling improvement because you are trying to mask a bigger issue with shocks that aren't up to the handle the task at hand. Somebody set him up with a combination that was flawed for his needs from the get-go.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

Answe me this......how come with 305-310 stock springs and factory decarbons with 100000 miles, my car never bounced around and felt ok for what it was. Im adding more spring, 350, and now it started to be floaty. How would 550s help my problem if with stock shocks and lesser spring it was ok.