2ToeRacing

iTrader: (5)

Ok, I have been reading a lot about the ride tech coil-overs,(1982-2002 Chevy Camaro - Rear CoilOvers - HQ Series).
I have also been reading about the UMI/Afco Coiloverse,( 1993-2002 GM F-Body Complete Coilover Kit, Single Adj., Monotube).
There "doesn't" seem to be that much of a differents between them that I can see. Is their +'s/-'s to each?

(Please, no pissing contest!!!)

I have tried the cheaper Koni's orange shocks, they are ok FOR ME but I want a better/greater driving experience.....will be for sale soon.

My car is a mountain road carver/nice day driver/DD sometimes. I'm also want to try some track days...up coming road Atlanta, yeah.

2ToeRacing

iTrader: (5)

no one...I would have thought some one has owned or has driven in a car with each setup

JohnR

iTrader: (1)

I still have the stock springs and shocks in my '99 Firehawk. I'm also interested in knowing the difference because I would like to upgrade to one of the above suspension systems this Winter.

Thanks,
John

smitty2919

I just installed the UMI ACFO set this weekend. Some differences are how each company designed the front upper mount. and how it bolts to the car. I'm sure the valving is different as well.

I also contemplated the Ridetech kit, but after riding in a local racers car with full UMI stuff I was sold. Not saying the Ridetech stuff is worse, since I have no clue. I have never spoken to Ridetech but the UMI guys have amazing customer service. Ridetech may as well, again just never dealt with them.

IMO, since they are similarly priced call both companies and speak with them. Then see who you like more? FOR ME, it was the customer service and the ever evolving R&D that UMI is doing for the 4th Gen cars that makes me want to support them.

What I see:
They use different front upper mount designs.
Ridetech uses single shear rear lower mount (like stock) where UMI used a double shear bracket design.
Both use the same design rear upper mount
Both monotube
Both use 2.5" Hyperco springs

UMI Performance

iTrader: (77)

Both us and Ridetech make an awesome product.

A little about ours:

The UMI shock's have been valved with SCCA champion Sam Strano and now are being used on a lot of fast 4th gens including Sam's current car.

The valving is very street friendly yet track oriented, we can adjust ride comfort with spring rates and shock tuning depending on what you use the car for.

The entire UMI kit is built in the USA, the bracketry is built by UMI, shocks built by Afco and the valving and shock length UMI and Strano teamed up together on. Testing and development took some time on these.

We have two test cars running this kit at Holley LS Fest this weekend and we are excited to see how they do.

Please let us know if you have any questions we can help with.

Thanks!
Ryan

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

I have afco umi up front and koni yellow rears since i have a 9 inch and on lowering springs sits perfect for my taste so saved 300 or a little more not getting them in the back. I like the combo.

From what i gather, the umi afco valving is based off the successes of the koni yellows. Similar valving. Koni yellows are a great product, but add the ride height adjystability and now u have an awesome product that reaches out to those who want ride height adjustability. Thats what the umi afcos are.

smitty2919

OP, like Ryan mentioned both kits will be a good kit. I don't think you can go wrong either way.

Pick up the phone and give the guys at UMI a call and I bet you will be buying from them. SUPER down to earth guys that don't sell you anything you don't need. If this kit was offered years ago when I bought my Koni/Strano springs, I would have skipped the strano springs in a heartbeat now knowing what a nicer coilover can feel like.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

I'm running the umi/afco/strano kit. It's the only thing I've done that is an improvement on the bilsteins shocks I had a while back.

It actually rides nicer than my wife's C6 vertible and feels more planted.

I have not ridden a ridetech suspension, but I do know guys who use their stuff to get rid of chassis noise and vibrations without killing performance. So I'm sure it's a great product and with a 1million mile warranty.

Idk if that helps much but there's my experience

2ToeRacing

iTrader: (5)

I'm going to keep this post up to see if Ridetech has anything to say. I've bought stuff from UMI and Sam. I really like that UMI has all these parts for our cars.......I guess I made up my mind.

marolf101x

First, I must say I respect the product UMI offers the market. We are in friendly competition, and we both make REALLY good parts. Unless I see something I completely disagree with I'll never say a bad thing about their stuff.

We have also worked with Sam Strano on some projects, and I think we both learned a lot. (I've also had my butt whipped by Sam, so I can attest he's one hell of a driver!)

I'm the one responsible for our shock choice and valving decisions. . .you won't find a person in our company more knowledgeable.
I'm here to answer whatever questions you may have. But to do so, I need to know what questions to answer. . .

Beyond our 1,000,001 mile warranty on our (Fox based) monotube shocks, what else do you want to know?
Do you want to know why we chose the upper mount we did?
Do you want to know why we used AFCO shocks in the past but switched to Fox based units?
Do you want to know what valving we use and why we chose it?
Do you want to know what piston we use and why we chose it?
Do you want to know what success we've had with these or similar parts?

We are here to help you make a decision and support you after the sale. There are a number of aftermarket companies that now provide unbelievable customer service, but I'd like to think we started that trend since we've been supplying the best product we can make and supporting our customers since 1996.

Let me know what questions you have either here, or via e-mail at britt@ridetech.com

smitty2919

OP, like I said you can't go wrong either way.

MY PERSONAL reason for going UMI is that they are heavily involved in developing products for the 4th Gen cars, USA made and a real good group of guys. If I was buying parts for a G-Body car, the decision would be harder since both companies offer more comparable packages/components. Ridetech doesn't offer much for 4th gens outside of coilovers and air shocks.

UMI offers the every...single...component you may want for an Fbody. So their k-member matches their control arms which can have different provisions for their sway bars. I recently ran into an issue where a Hellwig rear swaybar endlink would contact the UMI rear coilover....mismatched aftermarket components not fitting together is no one's fault. Had I owned a UMI rear bar, it would have worked with the UMI coilover.

But in Ridetech's defense, I have never spoke to them or saw them run. I was pitted 2 cars down from UMI at last years Goodguys Columbus event for All American Sunday and was able to chat with them. So that started to shape my opinions...

I would like to knowfrom Ridtech (and maybe asking for OP's help), is how high of spring rates their Fox based coilovers handle? It does not say on your site what springs the kit is offered with, and what rates are capable of being substituted if desired. Reason I ask is because I wanted higher than 600 front springs and my Koni single adjustable could not handle it without a custom revalve.

(No I don't work for UMI, no I'm not sponsored by UMI, no I do not get any perks from UMI. Just a happy customer)

marolf101x

Smitty,

Your question, "how high of spring rates can Fox based coil overs handle", is not easily answered.
What is the intended purpose of the vehicle?
What wheel rate are you after? This is THE MOST important question regarding springs.
What force do you need from the shock at certain shaft speeds? Is it a linear, digressive, or regressive damping curve? (there are certain situations where each has advantages and this is THE MOST important thing regarding shock force).

We do have a suggested spring rate for each vehicle/application. However, we prefer to discuss with each customer what they are doing with the vehicle, run it through our spring rate calculator (http://www.ridetech.com/info/tech/sp...te-calculator/) and choose the spring rate best suited for that particular customer.

Typically our single rebound adjustable HQ Series monotube dampers are sold with one valve code for the front, and one valve code for the rear. This valve code has a very light compression force and a relatively high rebound force capability with a wide range from full soft to full stiff. We have found this valve code to be very accommodating on the street while providing excellent grip for autocross.
That being said. . .is it the best? That depends on the intended use of the vehicle. If it's a dual purpose street/autocross car that spends 90% of it's time on the street and only sees a few autocross laps a year, it's great.

If you run more autocrosses or track the car you have a couple of options. Our TQ Series (triple adjustable. . .single rebound, high speed compression, low speed compression) shocks use an external reservoir and a linear/digressive stack. We've found the digressive rebound stack to be a big success for autocross.
However, each and every TQ is custom valved to the vehicle into which they are being installed. We have a questionnaire that helps us determine what you are doing with the car, we look at the car itself, then use one of our hundreds of canned valve codes, or come up with a new one if required.

Don't want to sink that kind of coin into the TQ's (or our new Instinct electronic shocks that start at slightly over $10K)? That's cool. We can custom valve the HQ's to whatever you want. You get most of what the TQ can offer, but at a lower entry fee.

So I guess the REAL answer to your question is that our shocks can handle whatever spring rate you want to use as we'll custom valve to match.

UMI Tech

This kind of stuff is why we get along so well with RT. Good explanation as usual Brit.

-- Ramey

smitty2919

Excellent reply.

OP there is a lot to discuss with whatever company you choose!

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

This thread just got really good. Appreciate the friendly competition too

I really thought the front upper mount on the ridetech kit looked great. It's not THAT different from the umi. Possibly results in a slightly shorter damper length?

I would be interested to know why fox over afco.

Chrisingermany

OP, whatever brand you choose I would still call into whatever company your getting them from and talk to someone about your and your cars intended use and your expectations. We have been discussing it on darths UMI/afco review post but a phone call will go a long way in helping pick the correct setup for your wants/needs.

2ToeRacing

iTrader: (5)

marolf101x, I don't have any question at this time, well because I don't know enough about shocks. I guess I would like to know why Fox builds your shocks now. I had them back in 01 on my motorcycle and really liked them. I also had Penske,ohlins. I've done some valving but that was a kit so I have a small Knowlege of how they work. As far learning all about them I m open.
smitty2919
make a very good point about UMI and that they have everything we'll need for our 4th gen cars, but I can't dismiss RT based on that.
I think I'd fall under the setup that my car is 99% street and hoping to get into some track days. I don't think the valving/spring would need to be changed. Now on your million mile warranty.....
I think UMI has a two year.....do they cover the same things??

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Ridetech makes good stuff. I know ppl who replace solid rod ends with the ridetech bushing ends to kill nvh

marolf101x

Upper Mounts:
Our upper mount is the product of fitting an existing length shock.
From almost day one we have utilized a "shock by length" program, not a shock specifically for an application. This keeps part numbers and inventory to a manageable level. Shocks are pretty easy to fit to a vehicle. . .you need roughly 5 inches of wheel travel, and you need an upper and lower mount. In the 4th gen, for example, we use one of the longest shocks we offer as the OE mounting points are just that far apart.
If it were a 1st gen Camaro, for example, we utilize the OE upper shock mount, but make a new lower control arm that drops the lower mount allowing us to run a longer shock that provides 5 inches of wheel travel.

Fox vs AFCO:
The AFCO units are good shocks. . .hell they helped save our butts. We were using an older twin tube design damper supplied by another company for many years. At that time we were offering only Shockwave air suspensions (we'd not started selling coil overs yet). Failure rate of the dampers was extrememly high, so we investigated shock suppliers. AFCO is only 30 miles from us, and I'd used them (as well as Ohlins, Pro, Bilstein, Integra, and others) for years on dirt circle track cars.
We switched to AFCO based units in all of our Shockwaves for about two years and they did a very good job for us at that time.

During this time I was working on our second military vehicle project with Fox offroad (basically making very large Shockwaves). During this second project we began talking about Fox getting into the car market as they had nearly zero presence. Most of their business was bicycle, followed by offroad, then power sports (snow mobiles, side-by-sides, motorcycle, etc). They expressed interest in the market, but didn't know how (or want to commit the resources) to make it happen. We then struck a deal to partner and offer the Fox/Ridetech monotube dampers, which we offered in Shockwave and coil over configurations. (they use the same shock cartridge. I designed the outside so we could seal the air springs and set coil spring heights, while Fox did the insides).
Why? Well, Fox was, at that time, an around 250 million dollar a year company (they are now over 400 million), they had recently finished Ford Raptor production and all the testing that entailed, they had resources and technology other smaller shock companies did not. They had a very well designed, very adaptable product at a reasonable price (they build some parts 100K at a time, while other shock companies build the same parts in lots of 100). They had more engineers than any small shock company (at that time around 40).
Basically they had resources we could only dream of. So, for example, they spent a ton of money developing the Ford Raptor shock. We were able to use the same components (just scaled down from a 2.5 Series shock to a 2.0 and 1.5 Series units). So, for instance, the seals would provide very little stiction, but live for many, many years. Just so many things a company of that size can address that companies our size could not.

1,000,001 mile warranty:
Fill out the registration card and drive your car. . .that's it. If the shock fails in any manner we replace or repair it for free. Now, that doesn't include everything. . .if you smack it with a hammer, sorry, no dice. . .if you hit a curb and break the thing in half, we'll work with you, but probably not free. . .if you drive your Mustang into a set of bleachers, you'll be paying (too soon?). You get the idea.

Other 4th Gen parts:
It's true we don't make many parts for the 4th gen (yet). We've always felt the "normal" parts were fully covered by reputable companies, so there was little need for us to jump into the market. The shocks are a bit different as we really feel we have something special that others don't offer.
This may change soon. We've been playing around with a 3rd Gen and have a lot of cool stuff going on. 4th Gen is on the list.

Rod Ends:
We offer a lot of different options. . .none of which are Poly! I freaking hate poly. We do offer some kevlar lined rod ends for autocross cars set to "kill", but for street cars I prefer smaller rubber ends or Delrin bushings. We've used Delrin a lot (and are probably the only aftermarket company to injection mold so damn much of the stuff!), but we use Delrin AF, meaning it has Teflon and is self lubricating (if the busing is white it does not have Teflon, if it's brown it does, if it's black it may or may not). It wears like steel, doesn't need to be lubed, provides nearly the deformation mitigation as a heim, but without the frequency that results in NVH.
We use it everywhere we can, and have more products coming soon that utilize Delrin.

2ToeRacing

iTrader: (5)

Ok,......question for RT and UMI. After so many miles it comes time for a rebuild/freshen up, what does each of you charge and what does it consist of?