Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

There are lots of great ideas about how I should charge for consultation, but apply that to orders. But realistically it doesn't work. Then the free advice people are complaining about isn't, in their eyes free. Because they are either paying for it and buying elsewhere, or boxed in with me, which doesn't make them feel good and I don't want to hold a gun to anyone's head.

The idea of making anyone by anything is against my nature, which is why I often talk people OUT of thing they don't need, so I can really can't make them buy a $30 part. and if I limit their time to something certain then I have to cut them off, and someone will bitch on LS1tech.com about it in a thread about springs.

This whole thing sucks.

smitty2919

Those topics/questions were spread out over a year span. One topic discussed each conversation. The take away from 4.10's was the fact the ring gear gets small...not ideal on a 10-bolt, upper mount issue was because they were springs and shocks bought from you and was a followup issue I was looking for opinions on how to fix...prepared to buy mounts from you, max spring rates on Konis because I wanted more spring on my current koni shock to reduce nose dive and because I mentioned "I've been reading" you went off on me. At which point I called Koni myself.

All conversations ended with me not buying from you due to the borderline condescending tone with simple questions I had and wanted to be educated on. One conversation you want on a rant how engineers are your worst customers since "they always need to qualify/quantify something rather than just go drive it", at which point I informed you I was an engineer... So I have done exactly what you mentioned...I stopped calling. I get no benefit from mentioning "my side of the story" so there is no reason for me to lie here.

I have, since those conversations, bought a brake brace since there is no discussion to be had and the product speaks for itself, and it works.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Great. Thanks for your opinion.

Yeah, sorry I am jaded about what you have been reading because most of it is just crap. I hear is 100 times a day, along with "I am not racing the car".

You have done a good job, and continue to do a great job in shining a light on the exact issue. Over the course of a year you asked about a lot of things. Did I ever not discuss those with you? No. You were prepared to buy mounts from me. Ok, did you need mounts? Were the broken? I can't recall but I would assume not if you didn't get them. And the mount won't cause any issue with dive unless they are BADLY broken, and even then not how much the car dives, but only how quickly.

There is no way in hell I didn't discuss what Koni's can handle, I think it's more likely that the answer isn't what you wanted to hear. Because the truth is it's largely subjective. Some folks like more damping than others. And there is a difference between critically damping something and overdamping it like most performance drivers like. So what did Koni say? Did they give a spring rate that you should not exceed? If so it was only to tell you what you wanted to hear, which is what I won't do if it's not accurate.

Ok, you stopped calling someone who answered your questions because he doesn't have time to waste hours and hours upon debating what you read on the internet. I tried, just like I do every day. And dojob, I know I have offered to show him my car and take him for a ride, maybe that makes me an ***? I dunno. I don't really care now at the moment.

In 36 hours I have a funeral to attend for a friend who was 42 years old that has my attention right now.

smitty2919

You were shown pictures of my mounts and we both agreed they needed replaced. Due to how the conversation was handled by you (again annoyed and condescending), MOOG mounts were ordered from RockAuto.

Koni confirmed that the shock is overworked when it can't control the spring rate, which they did not have a specific cutoff for...which is a generic answer. I did not want to risk spending money on higher spring rates only to find out the shocks wouldn't work so I went right to UMI/AFCO with proven results to handle higher spring rates...UMI using 850+ front springs.

No, I stopped calling because of the way you handled yourself when I asked you questions. Similar to what you are doing now, getting defensive and feeling threatened. NOT because you said something opposite of what I happened to research. I approached you mentioning what many have done/said and wanted to discuss with you since you had racing experience. It turned into an annoyed Sam Strano ordering me what to do.

capelajc

[QUOTE=DANSBIRD;19824448]Hmm... despite it seeming rather straight forward, can you elaborate on this a little? Clearance w/ components underneath the car is an on-going struggle w/ me.[/QUOTE

ever since I had the UMi adjustable torque arm installed, H/C/I , LT's , tune etc all done... I don't know if it's the additional power but the torque arm will occasionally hit the tunnel under hard acceleration. So I'm thinking if I lift the rear slightly it will get rid of that...? I'm not really sure either, and it's also a struggle for me lol

capelajc

Man this thread changed lol

I have ordered from Sam a few times...we all have choices, I could go search the web and hope to find a reputable company or comparable part cheaper...or free shipping. ...I personally choose to go with the company who I see on here giving advice, or just participating. I don't believe I've ever spoken to him in person but respect the work he does in his shop and at the track to help me improve my car. To me that's priceless.

I 100% understand what Sam is saying by people calling/emailing etc for advice...only to take that and go run to Amazon, eBay etc...I am in a profession where we get a lot of that as well. It can be very frustrating because you put a lot of time and resources into that customer interaction and then it's a crap shoot if you're getting the order or the big chain store who can undercut your prices does. Thankfully for me...I'm salary and not the owner.

SlowBurn

iTrader: (7)

Wow.

I've had LOTS of conversations with Sam. Some really short, some longer. I haven't always bought something as a result of those conversations. Usually I didn't buy something because an honest answer from Sam swayed me from purchasing something I didn't really need. Why? He's honest and up front. I would rather have an honest conversation with someone than a conversation where someone is all flowers and rainbows and it ends up with me buying something I didn't really need. The technical support side of the house is a double edged sword.. either people are going to get upset he didn't spill the beans on every detail or they get upset when he's honest about what his professional opinion of what they need or don't need is. Y'all can waste your time and money calling Summit and talking to someone who has in all likelihood never even driven an FBody if you think the person on the other end of that phone is a lot "nicer".. Me? I'll call the guy I trust to be honest with me.

JD_AMG

I don't understand how its widely accepted that engine builders can keep their custom cam specs secret, and ask customers to keep them secret when they get the cam card to keep other people from copying their work, but its not ok for Sam to not give away some of his specs on certain for free? How is that any different?


I don't know the whole story about the adapter, but did Sam previously make an adapter and claim it to be the best there is in the market, then out of no where completely change it to match the SKF unit? THAT was the problem with the springs being copied.

dojob

Since this has been blown out of context, mainly by Sam himself going off on tangents... Further proving my initial point how he omits information to manipulate conversations to serve himself and be victimized.

Like his self gratifying Facebook poll, linking to this thread, completely deflecting from my points surrounding his actions in the forum. The poll tallies "Price v good info is valuable". Not the points in my commentary at all. Odd he didn't put the poll on ls1tech? He's telling people what he wants them to hear, reinventing the conversation on Facebook.

My comments to him wasn't over cheapest possible pricing or "price shopping" as his fb poll states. It was because he got defensive over me posting a link I pulled off Google for UMI springs from summit for the OP to use. Wonder if he's upset with UMI for having summit sell their products and Sam isn't an exclusive distributor for UMI? What if I would have linked directly to UMI's page instead? Would that been deemed acceptable for Sam?

He has a sense entitlement that people should be buying from him because he takes part in a thread and will push products he is able to provide and if he isn't able to provide the parts... Their selection of parts are deemed inferior.

Example: cts/ats brembo brake conversations... He's chimed into threads talking down on the setups and pushing his brake kit. Giving pros of the "lower cost" pads of his setup and how he figured out the brake lines. On track performance, etc. But doesn't mention the need to cut spindles or the high cost overall in comparison... Even if the same pads/rotors/lines are used between his "kit" and the OEM brembo calipers. If he can't supply you with it, you're ostracized. You're doing what you want to your car, you're wrong if he doesn't have his hand in it.

As Sam recently stated above, he did indeed offer to ride me in his car. $1450 brake package he was attempting to sell me. I asked pricing, never said I was in the market for his kit.

Another example that people gravitated to and are laughing at...wheel offset secrecy. That came about when Sam again chimed in on a conversation of people looking to run 315/30/18 tires squared. At which point he exclaimed he knew wheel offsets and would only tell when they bought wheels from him. This information isn't anything new but he sells it as proprietary to his shop... The entire 315/30/18 market and associated wheels for fbody's is his and his only. That's his mindset. The specs were available prior to this and people were using the setup before he offered to sell the wheels/tires. I don't know if he was/is aware of this. So yes, that secrecy he sells is laughable.

People need help, they reach out to him, and he provides them what they need... Absolutely he should be rewarded accordingly. Sam absolutely has earned their business for those who need his services. But do not go around in a bitter fashion putting people down that do not need your help nor asked for it. Then push your twisted sales pitch so you can make money.

If someone knows what they want/need, do they need to buy from him? Is that what everyone is saying? Just pay more? Sam's entitled to that? Are you in his debt for all your vehicles' needs? Brand loyalty is one thing but it gets silly to go out your way to throw money a vendor's direction just because.

Again, I appreciate Sam and his contributions to the industry. He does however, IMO, provide a good bit of commentary in a selfserving manner... Not in the interest of the OP or the discussion in a thread, in Sam's interest... "How can I benefit from this?" That's why I commented... Not the "lowest pricing v good info is valuable" as Sam interpreted it to be.

I wish Sam and his business much success, whole heartedly.

zbugger

I wish this thread hadn't gotten so off track. Any small business will do what they can to promote their business. Nobody can compete with Summit or Jeg's. Every small business has an inherent right to be defensive when they constantly get slammed for not being able to compete pricewise. When I worked at a speed shop, we depended on customer service to be the advantage we had. Ultimately, people have gotten frugal and would rather pay a lower price and get free info. The person doing the research gets no gain once he passes that info along. Take it as you may. I dealt with Sam for my springs and shocks and sway bars. I have other avenues for other parts just because I know people. Will I go to Sam for more parts? Sure. But I'm gonna help my local small business just as much. I use summit/jegs as little as possible because I know how the small business works.

Sam, you do a great service to this community. Thank you for supporting us. I should have mentioned before the comparison between my car and the others. I live in the pro-touring world. We use coilovers on just about everything. The people complimenting my car's ride and handling have everything from coilovers to airbags. Exact words are "This thing rides like a Cadillac compared to my car.". And then their eyes open when I go through some turns too. It's a great combination.

handyandy

Couldn't have said it any better. I haven't been on this forum long, but I've already seen a few examples where Sam pokes into a thread with a generic question from the OP, and he's immediately in sell mode, trying to tell them his product is the only way to go.

The CTS / ATS brake thread was the main one that sticks out. OP asks if these brakes work with these wheels, Sam chimes in to basically say forget those brakes, buy mine and the wheels will fit. CTS brakes are such a horrible mismatch for these cars, but Sam's Willwood kit is precision engineered to match. But of course no real details why. Some folks do some math and look for more reasoning why he says what he says, and long story short it just goes in circles, and is clear the only reason for his stance was trying to make an unsolicited sale.

This thread is no different. Very open ended question - what springs should I buy? I can see Sam's frustration when someone calls him up for advice and then buys somewhere else, but he comes in this thread to promote his products and business, then gets all defensive and upset when there's a Summit link, then goes off on a huge tangent about how much time he spends on the phone.

It's great if he's around and willing to impart knowledge on the forum, but that's much different from fielding phone questions. If he chooses to respond in a thread, it's his choice, and it's because he wants a chance at making a sale. Sometimes it will result in a sale, sometimes it won't, but that's the game you play.

I've bought his springs and the brake brace and other suspension parts from him, and they seem to be great products at a fairly competitive price. There's no denying he does good work and has good stuff. But I also feel there's a certain amount of deception, half truths, and misdirection on here (who besides Sam mentioned sales tax??). And that's what irks me and I wish didn't have to happen.

I agree I do/have supported his business and wish him success. But I also believe in honesty and using the forum to share and spread info in an unbiased manner.

black sky

iTrader: (3)

You haaaaadddd to ask about lowering springs...diddnt you OP!

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Lol you never know where a simple question will end up on here

smitty2919

Giving advice in a proper manner is cost of doing business. Bashing products one does not sell/offer with no real reasons why in hopes to convince people to buy from you is not the way to do it.

Sam is best for people that don't know any better. Anyone that tries to get educated on their own talking to others and reading online is what sets him off. Others will not think this way, but I know many that agree with me. The ones annoyed with him are the ones, like me, whom have other highly regarded racers at their disposal to learn from. When you try to have all your ducks in a row and have an in depth conversation about options and opinions (cost of doing business) it has gone south for me.

I don't know why the aggravation over the Summit link...it was a link to a product of another highly regarded vendor of the forums which Sam also happens to sell. Would he still get pissed off if the OP bought UMI springs directly from UMI??? Knowing him probably, but he has no reason to. Same thing with Forgestar wheels...you can call them directly and discuss options.

If he had the ability to offer unbiased opinions of products with more useful information backing up said opinions then we wouldn't be in this position. Seems lichee always has to be provoked to get that kind of response.

OP, Strano/Koni setups is nice. I would agree with Sam's opinion of a progressive spring where coils are designed to stack and installing them being a pain.

Saturn5

In my time on here it seems he gets bothered by people using him as a knowledge resource, then going elsewhere to buy the product he advised them on.

Take Forgestar for example. If I am looking to buy them, why would I spend time talking to Sam about them if I planned to buy directly from Forgestar anyway? As you said, you can call them directly to discuss options.

Sam's always been very forthcoming with any questions I have and if he sells a product I'm interested in, I'll buy from him. I like the idea of supporting vendors who are involved here. Customer service is as important to me as quality and price.

On the original topic, I currently run the Strano/Koni4/4 setup on my 2000 TA. My only complaint is it's a bit lower than I want given the roads in my area. I contacted Sam about moving from these to his new coilover setup to get the adjustable ride height and he gave me some good pros and cons about either setup. He even suggested for what I'm looking for, I might be better off going with spacers rather than the full coilover setup. I'm going to add .5" spacers to see how that does. I'd like enough ground clearance to run longtubes, etc. in the future and as it is right now my stock y-pipe scrapes over some of the crazy speed bumps we have in my area.

capelajc

Pretty much same setup I have from Sam and my exact thoughts on adding a spacer to give me a little more clearance on my adjustable torque arm and also be nice for recently added ARH LT's. I'd love to see pics of someone who has added the spacers post.

Shookws6

smitty2919

You can run simple washers between the shock T-bar and lower control arm and get longer bolts.

1bdbrd

iTrader: (12)

I will start by saying that I have never spent a dime on Sam's website but that being said I see a lot of companies use forum posts to "pimp" their line of product. UMI and BMR do it constantly in this very section fwiw. Yet they are never called out on it. Fact is, that's why they are here, to generate interest and business to their product lines.

His attitude may offend people on here (hell I have been gruffed by it over the years and even swore off on buying his parts because of it) but I can see how someone would get to that point and now better understand it. I even understand why he's said the things he has said in this thread; because the internet has convinced people that loyalty and thanks for help are rewarded by buying elsewhere. I would be pissed too if I talked about my product and then someone said "here's a link to buy nearly the same thing from a big box store for a cheaper price". Every single person in this thread would at some point grow tired of that same scenario happening.

The Brembo/Wilwood comparison took me a little bit to understand but it makes sense at least in my head now. First off, who cares if you have to cut an ear off your spindle? You aren't going back to stock brakes after upgrading. Be real here. Second he offers them as a choice where you get new and proven parts that have the future added benefit of off the shelf replacement parts at the local autoparts store. I haven't fully researched the ATS setup yet but I know with the CTS-V/Camaro setup you have to have your rotors machined to fit every time they are replaced (which could be every weekend). So why not offer this as a much more complete and user friendly setup for similar time and money investment? As far as being tailor fit to the car, he probably sat down with the Wilwood catalog and found a caliper with piston sizes that would work well with our master cylinder sizing and that would also fit under a good portion of 17" wheels AND would work with C5 pads and rotors. Which is better than just throwing on a brand new flashy Brembo caliper because it says "Brembo" on the side and has more pistons in the body.

I have read every reply in this thread and again found Sam to come across rather gruff at times but lots of people also sound pretty whiny and entitled. Mad that he's not kissing your *** for business and answering every question with a Chik-Fil-A-worker level of wanting more questions. The man's parts are well proven and even copied so that obviously means something. He also sounds pretty long winded and like the type that will tell you from his proven experience. I'm not sure how much more you could want. If you want coddling, go to a daycare and check yourself in. If you want proven parts and answers, he sounds like someone that can easily fit that bill.

Eatinstang4life

iTrader: (10)

So i was going to use this thread to see options on lowering springs for myself. Guess no longer discussing that.