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Not saying they are or are not related, but need input and suggestions to prevent it from happening again.
I am running 19x8.5" Front Wheels and 19x9.5" Rear Wheels, BMW 5x120 bolt patterns which I realize is slightly different than the F-Body 5x120.65 (5x4.75") bolt pattern. There are no spacers on any wheel but they do have hub centric rings on all four and the fronts are still using the stock studs. The rears are using 1/2" studs due to my Midwest Chassis install that happened a few months ago (yes they fit) but before that they were also using stock studs. I have been running these wheels since about 2015 with no broken studs up to this point, but not going to put it past the possibility. The problem with the fronts is, I have to have a wheel with enough offset to clear my Brembo's.
These are the Ridetech's I am using:
https://ridetech.com/product/1993-2002-chevy-camaro-firebird-coilover-system-level-1/
They are set at about 15 notches (they go up to 30). It is a good bit stiffer and bumpier than stock especially at high speeds but its not what I thought would be 'too harsh' ... but I could be wrong. They have been installed on the car for about 3 weeks. Before that I also had QA1's which were also a bit harsh but the Ridetech's feel alittle harsher and lower too, but way more stable around corners.
I was wondering if upgrading to 1/2" studs on the front will be enough to rectify my issues or if I have bigger problems than that...
The studs broke off. They aren't shown in the photos, but two of them to the left are gone, you can't see it because the plastic fender cover is in the way. I should have taken a better photo but was more worried about getting it off that highway at the time.
I am okay though. I heard something start knocking while I was doing 60 MPH and I started slowing down incase something was wrong, put on the hazards and started heading toward the shop that did my ridetech install. I got into the center left turn lane to turn left toward the street that they were located on and was doing about 30 MPH ( speed limit is 60 MPH ) and thats where the wheel came off. Lost my brakes too but I hand braked it to a stop.
What should I do as far as studs go? Will 1/2" studs prevent this from happening again?
Last edited by Need4Camaro; 06-02-2023 at 11:40 AM.
they should have insurance. worth a try. lugs dont just break off for no reason. i cant imagine what the safety factor is on something like that. if i were that shop id have never installed the wrong lug pattern wheels though. good luck sir.
I do know that a wheel won't come off unless ALL the studs broke off or ALL the nuts come off or some combo of the 2. You have 3 missing lug nuts, so theres that.
thats true if its hub centric and the lugs arent tapered its not gonna matter. if theyre tapered it PROBABLY wont matter, but every time its torqued down its bending those studs.
The studs broke off. They aren't shown in the photos, but two of them to the left are gone, you can't see it because the plastic fender cover is in the way. I should have taken a better photo but was more worried about getting it off that highway at the time.
What should I do as far as studs go? Will 1/2" studs prevent this from happening again?
The studs were being stretched every time a new torque was applied until they broke. That's because "I am running 19x8.5" Front Wheels and 19x9.5" Rear Wheels, BMW 5x120 bolt patterns which I realize is slightly different than the F-Body 5x120.65 (5x4.75") bolt pattern."
Not just slightly different, but able to cause your drastic failure. Yes, you have been told it is no problem. That turns out not to be the case, as you've now proven. Not just slightly different, but totally wrong, ask your wheel studs. They learned. The more powerful the tool used to tighten your wheels, the more the studs deform, stretch, weaken and try to kill you. Really.
"What should I do as far as studs go"
Wrong question, the studs did nothing wrong. You did. The question should be "What do I do about wheels?"
Just because you can fit BMW wheels doesn't mean you ever should. Nor any 5X120 wheel.
"I was wondering if upgrading to 1/2" studs on the front will be enough to rectify my issues or if I have bigger problems than that..."
Your wheels leveraged the stretched studs into total failure. Larger studs are not the answer.
Last edited by LSX Thunder; 06-02-2023 at 04:34 PM.
Fair points but it is still odd that they lasted so long and through so many torque's / retorque's before today. Those wheels have been on there for 8 years now.
Fair points but it is still odd that they lasted so long and through so many torque's / retorque's before today. Those wheels have been on there for 8 years now.
Your terrible experience is the textbook example of metal fatigue. We all tend to think of steel studs as the opposite of elastic, but they are under enough pressure. Slowly at first and then all at once. I can't really blame the shop that did your Ridetech installation. Those studs had been stretching like a rubber band since you first installed the BMW wheels. Even here the assertion is that such a small difference can't matter. It's so intuitive to see.65 mm as inconsequential but you've proven with ontological certainty that it is not. As the stud stretches it increases the leverage the mounting points can exert. The instant it reaches the sufficient amount, what had been a slow alteration goes critical (all at once). The only safe bolt pattern for your car is 5X4 3/4 aka 5X120.65 mm. I'm sure years ago you read many assertions from well-meaning guys, who wrote they "guaranteed" the BMW 5X120's would be fine. "Wrong guess, Hans".
If you have read this thread, you know that's a likely innocent but misleading title, unless you don't understand cause and effect. As many who gave the original poster garbage advice obviously don't.
That's 5x4.75 on the car and 5x120mm at the wheel. Assuming there's room to push the wheel out an inch, why would someone pay a little more than $320 for these when they're on ebay ready to go for a little more than $100?
I am not convinced that China provides quality products. I know Lenny does.
Is it possible to instead use the 5th Gen Wheel Hub on a 4th gen?
They appear to be 5x120 Trying to avoid pushing the wheels out.
Can the hub on my MWC rear axle also be swapped out easily or would I need to send it back to MWC?
For the wheels themselves...If I were to change them, I can't remember what offset is necessary to clear the Brembo's and it seemed like choosing the right one was a matter of luck.
The rear can be redrilled, the front can't. At least on stock front hub flanges.
I was more so meaning if the front wheel hubs could be completely replaced with the 5th Gen 5x120 units since they appear to be a true 5x120 like the BMW wheels and not a 5x120.65 like the 4th Gens:
No. The 5th gen has a triangular three bolt pattern and the 4th gen has 4 bolts.
Dang. Okay. I am thinking of just starting over from scratch and just getting 5x4.75" wheels ... I can't remember what offset is necessary for the Brembo's.
The spacer solution would also work ... but I was really trying to avoid having them stick out any further than they currently do.
It's obvious that the wheel nuts came off. The two studs that broke might have been the last nuts still there but really loose and the wheel moved off the hub and the studs broke. You got your warning but you just kept driving.
Do not use anti-seize, and torque the bolts properly and re-torque after about 50 miles. Visually check that there's enough thread engagement as well.
Severe over tightening can cause this too because the wheel will yield under the nut a little while after assembly. Too many shops hammer down those nuts with large impact wrench and it's just plain stupid.
Not a fan of BMW bolt pattern on these cars, but I think it is not primary cause of this particular issue. Had the nuts been tightened properly you'd still be driving.
06-02-2023, 10:28 AM
Wheel came off after suspension upgrade 
). 
