2w0s060

jRaskell

iTrader: (1)

FYI, comments like that do nothing to help your side of the debate, DMNSPD. Your statements either have merit, or do not. Attempting to debunk your opponents claims with unfounded accusations should be left to the slimey politicians. If you are, in fact, a slimey politician though... well, I make no appologies.

Gloveperson

iTrader: (9)

I think he was joking.....

If he started making fun of the guys vietnam war record or something or starting flip-flopping on everything..then we could start talking about politicians

-Todd

demonspeed

iTrader: (7)

I was joking around. If you'd follow my posts around the rest of the forums, you'd understand my stale humor. I make comments that do push buttons on people, but hey, all's fair in love and war.

Gloveperson has read several of those comments (eg. the GTO forums).

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Enlighten us on how UMI does it, then.

Scoffing at points of fact without data to back it up makes one look rather foolish. I mean, anyone can say "Oh yeah." and stick their tongue out. I recall it several times when I was in elementary school.

To boil all this down ...

You say rod ends are crap and will make noise, regardless.
I say, using a quality rod end will not make a rattling noise.

I do have a little experience with suspension build up for road course duty, which mimmicks street duty ... you know, braking, turning, accelerating ... but I certainly don't proclaim to be any knid of expert. I've been fortunate enough to have a couple of mentors that lead me down the right path, again, based upon personal experience. How can one argue with 3 World Challenge Championships in a 4th gen F-Body.

I'm only speaking from first hand experience, based upon first hand knowledge of 2 of the 3 vendors in this topic's title, whose part have been on my car. That is common knowledge.

Finally, if you are THAT sure, then the "promise" you make above must be a personal, money back guarantee? I guess it's time to put up or shut up, eh?

Redlinez

iTrader: (5)

I think there may be a misunderstanding about rod ends. Would you agree they WILL transmit more noise and vibration than any other type of end on any suspension component? I totally agree with you Mitch when it comes to leave a street car just that, streetable. When I tried a poly trans mount the sound was unbearable. I would think anything spherical mounted would be gross on a street car.

2w0s060

Hi Mitch,

I contacted both QA1 and UMI today- here is what I got

After speaking with QA1, here are the prices on the XMR12 Endura Series rod ends. 1pc $28 each, if you buy $1000.00 worth price drops to $23.00ea AND if you buy $2500.00 worth price drops to $18.00ea! So companies such as BMR, Spohn, UMI and LG I am sure are all buying in large quantities to receivce this discount. This is quite a bit different then your original thougth price of $40-$50, correct? Prices will be increasing a slight bit though do to the steel price increase.

UMI does use the QA1 XMR series on all there products and I assume that they are bougth from QA1 and I assume LG buys from QA1. So in reality UMI and LG use the exact same rod ends. So if UMI and LG both placed a order today with QA1 they are receiving the same rod ends. If LG placed a order at 10am and UMI at 11am then LG would get there package sent first and UMI second. BUT if UMI placed a order at 10am and LG at 11am UMI's order would ship first. Meaning UMI could of actually received the same rod ends that LG could of received, kind of get my theory there.

I know LG makes a great quality product, I have seen it. I also know UMI makes a great product for I have seen it too. So since we have determined that UMI and LG both use the same ends there is no more argument left, right? The only argument left would be who has the better welds, well if we can get a few 700HP cars and a good track I am sure this can be arranged.

Just my opinions

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

In all honesty, I heard nothing more than I had heard prior to installing the LGM LCA components.

I had BMR poly/poly on the car prior to that.

The LGM components with a rod end made no more noise than the BMR poly ended components. That was 2 years ago.

So, someone who proclaims it's impossible for their to be no more noise is just wrong. That person is basing an opinion, not on personal experience, rather on what that person has read.

Further, I am not saying LGM components are the ONLY ones that make no noise. It's just the parts that I found to work and I quit looking. I'm not gonna recommend parts I'm never used, nor am I gonna scoff at parts I've never tried.

Read back though this post. Never once have I said UMI parts are junk ... because I just don't know for a fact. I've never run them.

However, from my personal experience, I cannot see how a vendor can use expensive parts (ones that make no noise) and sell at cut rate prices.

As was pointed out, I'm no market analyst ... but I do know that to make money, one needs to sell stuff for more than they pay for it. It doesn't take a Harvard Business grad to figure that out.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

You assume, so it becomes fact?

I don't believe LG uses QA1s. I believe they use Aurora, the same type used in aircraft. Do I know this for a fact? No ... but if everyone else can assume, then I certanly can as well.

http://www.bakerprecision.com/auror8b.htm

Look down around the 5/8" and 3/4" bearings ...

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

You guys are obviously have set in your mind what works and what doesn't.
Fine, I have no issue with what YOU want to do.

State what you KNOW and move on.

2w0s060

Mitch, then I am wrong. I assumed this whole discussion was about the QA1 rod ends, I must have read wrong.

I do not know that LG uses QA1 either, but I guess from reading through this and other post yes I assumed they did. But I do run the QA1 ends and I also have no noise issues, mine have only been there for about a year now but still no noise.

Also through my reading I have found that both BMR and Spohn 1-2 years ago did use a cheaper rod ends with there items. After a few failed products and many complaints they have swithed to a better more sucessful rod end. You unfortunatly where one of the ones that got there cheaper rod ends.

I know you never said UMI parts were junk, I never said you did. Same way I do not think LG parts are junk, I know there not. But really I think we just think the same about this, you have found a good company so you are sticking with it and will continue to buy from them and have no reason to go anywhere else. I am doing the same thing, I see no reason to go with another company when you are happy with the one you are using.

This all originally started when Steve posted about his Badz control arms and the terrible noise he encountered from the rod ends. Well I assume the noise is coming from the cheap rod ends. He thinks now since his Badz ends are noisy ALL rod ended control arms are going to be, when in return both me and you feel different.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Hmmmm...this is making a bit more sense then. There was a guy that I read was using some QA1 ends, and he was getting a little bit of noise out of them, which helped to send me into my earlier tirade about rod ends in general. So perhaps it is the Aurora rod ends that don't make noise? I was under the assumption that LG used QA1s.

I've dealt with Aurora before, as they were the providers of the rod ends on the Formula SAE car I helped build in college. Get this, I was in charge of suspension design. Guess what? The car pushed like no other through the turns...figures. Guess I'll stick to what I know, which surprisingly enough, isn't a whole lot. Those ends didn't rattle though...but then again, the car only weighed 450 lbs. They also have many different grades of ends...we were using some 1/4" that were the aircraft grade, and they were $$$$$$.

Steve

demonspeed

iTrader: (7)

I was going to post the exact same thing 2w0s060 posted about the price. There you go, that's how they do it - and that's a fact.

I NEVER said rod ends are crap. I simply stated that many people that are looking into control arms don't need them simply because of the driving they do. I am 99.9% sure that if people are happy with their poly lca's that they won't even notice the difference with the rod ends for their driving duties.

You want the absolute best? Buy the LG's with their assumed Aurora rod ends. Dig deeper in your wallet too.

Those of us that don't need these hardcore rod ends, just stick with the less expensive, yet still great quality UMI/BMR/Spohn. I'm sure most everyone considering the poly ones don't ever plan to see a road course, and maybe an autox event once or twice a year.

The heading of this topic was BMR vrs Spohn vrs UMI. I didn't see LG mentioned anywhere, so why is it one person always has to admit LG for consideration when they know damn well that that the people asking the quesion don't need it.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Then ask z2802sunsetls1, he brought it up first. Then you responded, using LG Motorsports as an example, stating the same rhetoric as above, and I agreed with you.

I don't think you are gaining respect by the way you respond off the handle, without researching your "facts". And I don't think you are doing UMI any favor either.

demonspeed

iTrader: (7)

I'm not talking about z2802sunsetls1, I'm talking about mitchntx. After all, you are the most opinionated poster in the handling and braking forum.

I know my facts Mitch - the way I get them is simply just for me to know and for you not to worry about.

Right back at you.

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

LG does use QA1-XM series rod ends. That's what Louis (LG's son) told me when I needed to order a new rod end.

The QA1-XM rod ends are DEAD silent, period.

This is the part number for the rod ends used on the LG poly/heim LCAs:

QA1-XMR-12 $29.99 + shipping/handling from Jegs.

demonspeed

iTrader: (7)

Well alright! We have a fact... So now we have BMR/Spohn/UMI/LGM using the same QA1 rod ends.

And actually, personally I wouldn't mind some noise if I wanted the best rod ends for road racing. I simply didn't need to go with the rod ends for what I do. I just didn't see the point for my setup.

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

It may/may not be entirely fact, at the present. I ordered the new rod end about 1 year ago and at THAT point in time, Louis told me it was the rod end I posted above. They may have since changed. But, at the time I ordered the replacement last year, it was the QA1 XMR12 series rod end.

I have no data to support that they still use/don't use those. Just wanted to clarify.

jaberwaki

i hate to stir the pot guys...
but the lg site said they use 9/16 rod ends...

the Aurora site provided does not list that as a size they make.
*looks around... wheres my nomex???*

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

My LG poly/heim LCAs have 3/4" rod ends.