I'm starting to get the feeling that you really don't know what "works" and what it would feel like if your shocks and springs worked properly together, so debating this much farther is probably a waste of time. However.....

If you truly beleive that most pro kit owners are running Hal shocks, I'd say that you are terribly mistaken on that as well. You and a few friends (and several members on this board) are running that combo, but I bet far more are running bilstiens with their pro kits. Whatever makes you happy.

Based on your logic (or lack thereof). Koni shocks must not be any good since they don't make springs to match their shocks???? I have to applaud the ability to generate such flawed logic.

Shocks are difficult to manufacture, springs are also difficult to design and build (properly). Shocks have many moving parts, high pressure gas seals, valving that uses springs and many other small parts that must be assembled to a proper tolerance using the correct combination of pressure and the right shock oil.

Springs need to be wound to the proper diameter, the proper number of turns for each application, using the correct wire thickness. All of which combine to give the spring a combination of the proper spring rate and the vehicle the correct ride height. On top of that, you must temper them properly so they maintain the correct shape. Springs also require a signifigant level of knowledge to build properly. So, I buy springs from "spring companies" (who don't build shocks, or suspension, etc) and I buy shocks from "shock companies" (who don't build springs, suspension, etc).

What am I running? It's all on the webpage in my sig. Or, the quick answer is H&R Springs (ok, H&R does make wheel spacers and the sell coil over kits that are made in conjunction with another shock vendor) and Koni Double Adjustable shocks, Suspension Techniques sway bars (35/25mm). Sub frame connectors, strut tower brace and the usual stuff.

Actually, I'd not put hals on a golf cart, but that's just me. Drag shocks are not shocks, or barely shocks and are rarely adequate for damping stock spring rates properly. You probably don't remember the 90/10 drag shocks. They were the "stuff" for drag racing, but they warned you not to run them on the street due to the possiblility of losing control of the vehicle. Hals are not terribly far from those origins and I'd personally not install them on a street car (you are however free to do whatever you want).

I'm glad you are happy with your set up. If it does what you need/want (which I am going to guess involves a few seconds driving in a straight line), that's great. If that is the case, why lower you car at all (it only slows you down in the 1/4 mile in 99% of all cars). If you lower your car for improved handling, then use a shock to give better handling performance. If you lowered it just for looks. Do whatever you want, just be safe.


Yup. If you and others have raised the rev limiter on a dead stock motor, cam, valvesprings and all, to 7,000. Please send me a video of you actually using that rev limiter, or even spinning the motor to 6,800 rpm. I suspect that will be an expensive lesson in relpacing valvetrain parts. So, if you did it, you may want to reconsider that adjustment.

As for headers and stock exhaust, I can't think of a single car that I've seen setup that way. All I can ask would be "why"? But, if it makes you happy, enjoy!

 

All that means is most folks don't have experience with other setups. Like Trackbird said, if y'all are happy with what you have, great. But don't stand up and say it's the ****, when you don't know what you guys are missing. You've read from many on here that upgrading shocks.

DeCarbon's are terrible shocks, note the folks who've done both stock shocks and good shocks like Revalved Bilstein's or Koni's. Better control, respone, and even the ride is nicer...... Can you lower a car with DeCarbon's? Sure you can, and you might even think it's better than stock because you are band-aiding the lack of rebound with just flat stiffer springs. That can help a little, but will hurt other things as well.

HAL's would be a little better, as you could at least try and adjust them for better control, but since their adjuster is pitfully simple and does not account for shock piston speed it's of limited use. Add to the fact the shocks are hydraulic and therefor more prone to cavitation when hot (and make no mistake, shocks get hot, the energy damped is converted to heat), which makes them less effective and also hurts the longevity as the air bubbles allow the seals to drag on the tube without proper lubrication..... But a HAL is intended for drag race use, and it's not hard to make a drag shock. All you have to do is realize that worn out front shocks make great drag shocks. But because it's "adjustable" if you turn it up it'll offer some better control. Not enough for most springs, and a harsher ride than need be because of the adjuster design, but better none the less.

I'm sure I'll be called crazy, and I don't know what I'm talking about because after all you guys have lowered lots of cars and stock shocks are fine. Folks will just have to read the information and figure out who they believe.

I'll just add this: Shocks are in reality, spring dampers. If you up the spring rate, you need more damping (and the stock shocks are weak even on the softer stock springs, ask anyone who's ONLY changed shocks). When you lower you ride height, you need more damping as you've forced the shock to damp the higher rate spring in a shorter distance. Even if the stock shocks were PERFECT (yeah....right) for the stock springs, when you add 27, 35, 50% more spring rate to them, they are no longer going to work as they should.

 

Z28Maro - see the 2 signatures above You should learn to be much more humble and open.

 

according to what trackbird is telling me (that springs and shocks must be matched to work to the best of their abilities) then yes KONI shocks would be an inferior product BASED ON THAT LOGIC because of the fact that they do not produce springs to be used with their shocks. that's YOUR words not mine. i'm basically saying that my setup is killer on the street, strip, auto-x (only went once before th400) and wherever else i want to drive it. this subject is just that SUBJECTIVE, just like politics or religion, you may feel that you are the holder of the correct knowledge, but that is just your view. am i saying that you are wrong? not at all, obviously you know what you are talking about. Am i saying that what i (and many others) have is a bad *** setup? very much so. is there a better setup? yeah, i'd love to have an F1 Ferrari over my Z28 anyday.

 

by the way, there is some very good info layed out here as far as spring rate and how it works with the shock (damper) and i love learning this stuff and knowing how it will effect my performance. don't think that i am doubting you or y'all's knowledge at all because that is not the case at all. just stating my opinion.

 

i havent read the whole thread, but i would NOT recommend the use of the stock shocks with lowering springs.


i had the eibach prokit, ride was horrible after a few thousand miles IMO
some people may like it that stiff

i put some konis on w/ new springs...10x better.

 

I was using your statement that Eibach doesn't make shocks. Koni does not make springs. But with the application of a little research, knowledge or just plain trial and error, you can find a setup that works properly together.

I'm done. And, I'm glad you are happy with your setup. I'd hate it, but everyone has different goals. Decide what you want to do and buy parts accordingly. Have fun!

 

Z28Maro - you are too quick to respond and too slow to read. By "matching" shocks and springs, no one is implying that they need to be the same brand. Take some time and think about it.

 

Z28MAro

I too thought the stock shocks with my Eibach's were fine.

Then I had a ride in a friends Camaro with matched components.

The I drove his car in an autox.

I ordered from Sam the following Monday ( revalved Bilsteins that match the Eibach's rates )

Do yourself a favor; see if you can get a ride or drive a friends car with matched components. I believe it will change your mind too.