worthwhile upgrade?
worthwhile upgrade? i was thinking of getting a 1LE (32mm) sway bar for my car. i currently have subframes, dms springs, and bilstein shocks. i would just leave the rear swaybar stock. i have a 2000 Z28. let me know if you guys think that'd be a worthwhile upgrade 
My 1LE bars made a big difference. Car corners much better now. I used to not understand hat people meant when they say a car handles like it's "on rails". Now I know. I think most people will tell you to go with a larger 35mm bar.
-Mike
-Mike
My SS came stock with a 32mm front bar, and I stepped up to a 35mm. This helped things some, but switching out my rear bar made the biggest difference to me. I went from 19mm-25mm, so it is obvious why I felt it more. This bar would be too much for auto-cross, but may be okay for some limited road race use. Around town, I love it...I know it is wearing my tires faster since I can now steer with the gas pedal quite easily, but oh well. That's the price we pay.
Shocks are the biggest help you can make on a 4th gen (MHO). Big front swaybar is the 2nd biggest, and that includes anything else you can think of, springs, LCA's, SFC's, etc, etc.
I beleive Steve added his bar right about the same time he did his shocks and coil-overs. All three changed the car, and probably muted the effect of the bar change. Yes, you can also add a big rear bar and get the response Steve mentioned. But a car that oversteers that easily is not fun or easy to drive really quickly. Fast cars are very stable cars, and that big rear bar makes things a little dicey, as you can see by the fact he can steer with the gas "quite easily". That's because there is less rear traction now. I'm not saying a bigger rear bar wouldn't help, but I feel 25 is too large in the back, and that a 21 or 22 should only be used with a 35 front bar. If you opt for a 32 bar or stock with the 30 on the front, you have no option (again MHO) but to run the stock 19mm rear.
I beleive Steve added his bar right about the same time he did his shocks and coil-overs. All three changed the car, and probably muted the effect of the bar change. Yes, you can also add a big rear bar and get the response Steve mentioned. But a car that oversteers that easily is not fun or easy to drive really quickly. Fast cars are very stable cars, and that big rear bar makes things a little dicey, as you can see by the fact he can steer with the gas "quite easily". That's because there is less rear traction now. I'm not saying a bigger rear bar wouldn't help, but I feel 25 is too large in the back, and that a 21 or 22 should only be used with a 35 front bar. If you opt for a 32 bar or stock with the 30 on the front, you have no option (again MHO) but to run the stock 19mm rear.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
Originally Posted by Sam Strano
Shocks are the biggest help you can make on a 4th gen (MHO). Big front swaybar is the 2nd biggest, and that includes anything else you can think of, springs, LCA's, SFC's, etc, etc.
I beleive Steve added his bar right about the same time he did his shocks and coil-overs. All three changed the car, and probably muted the effect of the bar change. Yes, you can also add a big rear bar and get the response Steve mentioned. But a car that oversteers that easily is not fun or easy to drive really quickly. Fast cars are very stable cars, and that big rear bar makes things a little dicey, as you can see by the fact he can steer with the gas "quite easily". That's because there is less rear traction now. I'm not saying a bigger rear bar wouldn't help, but I feel 25 is too large in the back, and that a 21 or 22 should only be used with a 35 front bar. If you opt for a 32 bar or stock with the 30 on the front, you have no option (again MHO) but to run the stock 19mm rear.
I beleive Steve added his bar right about the same time he did his shocks and coil-overs. All three changed the car, and probably muted the effect of the bar change. Yes, you can also add a big rear bar and get the response Steve mentioned. But a car that oversteers that easily is not fun or easy to drive really quickly. Fast cars are very stable cars, and that big rear bar makes things a little dicey, as you can see by the fact he can steer with the gas "quite easily". That's because there is less rear traction now. I'm not saying a bigger rear bar wouldn't help, but I feel 25 is too large in the back, and that a 21 or 22 should only be used with a 35 front bar. If you opt for a 32 bar or stock with the 30 on the front, you have no option (again MHO) but to run the stock 19mm rear.
The front, DEFINITELY. Rear bars, usually but not always. A lot plays into it. Not only the front bar size, but springs the shock (again), tires & sizes, use of the car, etc, etc.
Most of the time we do go with a moderately larger rear bar (22mm or so) to go with a large front (and 32 isn't large, I'm talking 35mm). If you stay 32 in front, I really prefer staying with a 19mm rear. Or if you have very stiff rear springs in the car, I'd also tend to stay with a 19, regardless of front bar (not in every case, but most).
Bars add wheel rate, just like springs do. If you over do it in general, or at one end vs. the other, the car isn't balanced anymore.
Most of the time we do go with a moderately larger rear bar (22mm or so) to go with a large front (and 32 isn't large, I'm talking 35mm). If you stay 32 in front, I really prefer staying with a 19mm rear. Or if you have very stiff rear springs in the car, I'd also tend to stay with a 19, regardless of front bar (not in every case, but most).
Bars add wheel rate, just like springs do. If you over do it in general, or at one end vs. the other, the car isn't balanced anymore.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
So Sam, you're saying for guys like me that put a 25mm in the back, primarily for drag racing, but also because I run 315s, that we should absolutely upgrade the front to a 35mm if we want the car to corner properly again?
I was thinking about doing this, but I figured I'd ask as long as you're talking.
Mark
PS And as I recall, you sell the Susp Tech 35s, yes?
I was thinking about doing this, but I figured I'd ask as long as you're talking.
Mark
PS And as I recall, you sell the Susp Tech 35s, yes?
Last edited by WAHUSKER; Feb 1, 2005 at 01:01 PM.
Trending Topics
NOTHING is ever absolute. But nobody that I can think of has ever been anything buy pleased by a bigger front swaybar's improvement (unless they are pure drag racers).
Mark, your in one of those positions that you want the best of every world. But drag racing and handling are diametrically opposed. You want lousy damping and body motion control for weight transfer when running at a strip. But we want the complete opposite when turning corners......
Mark, your in one of those positions that you want the best of every world. But drag racing and handling are diametrically opposed. You want lousy damping and body motion control for weight transfer when running at a strip. But we want the complete opposite when turning corners......
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo Yeah Sam, I know, I want it all. Frustrating aren't I? Didn't Pat warn you?
So how about if I installed a 35 for more stability in the open road racing & then disconnect it to get weight transfer at the drag strip? The other option is running a stock rear sway bar for cornering.
So how about if I installed a 35 for more stability in the open road racing & then disconnect it to get weight transfer at the drag strip? The other option is running a stock rear sway bar for cornering.
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Loma Linda, CA
Originally Posted by Sam Strano
The front, DEFINITELY. Rear bars, usually but not always. A lot plays into it. Not only the front bar size, but springs the shock (again), tires & sizes, use of the car, etc, etc.
Most of the time we do go with a moderately larger rear bar (22mm or so) to go with a large front (and 32 isn't large, I'm talking 35mm). If you stay 32 in front, I really prefer staying with a 19mm rear. Or if you have very stiff rear springs in the car, I'd also tend to stay with a 19, regardless of front bar (not in every case, but most).
Bars add wheel rate, just like springs do. If you over do it in general, or at one end vs. the other, the car isn't balanced anymore.
Most of the time we do go with a moderately larger rear bar (22mm or so) to go with a large front (and 32 isn't large, I'm talking 35mm). If you stay 32 in front, I really prefer staying with a 19mm rear. Or if you have very stiff rear springs in the car, I'd also tend to stay with a 19, regardless of front bar (not in every case, but most).
Bars add wheel rate, just like springs do. If you over do it in general, or at one end vs. the other, the car isn't balanced anymore.
Not meaning to jack the thread, but ur on a topic ive been wondering about.
Sam I have the G2 Super Springs and was wondering what swaybar setup would u recommend? I have a friend who can get a good price on those Hotchkis but as you said that might be to much. Thanks.
I have run the stock bars (30/19) on my car (haven't we all?) and when autocrossing (with stiff springs and Koni's), I was getting lots of body roll and unloading the inside rear tire. The car was lazy and I was not real happy with the way it was driving. I swapped on the ST bars (35/25) and that was enough that I was unloading the inside rear tire, not because of the body roll on the front of the car (not directly, but it also helped), but because the stiff bar was lifting the inside rear wheel. Then, I switched to a combination of the ST 35mm front and a 19mm rear and the car is 100% better. However, I'm going to add one of Sams 22mm hollow rear bars (on the rear) to see if I like it better or not.
I should mention that I'm running spring rates of roughly 600/200 and Koni DA's on my car. So the bars are part of the package and your results may be different than mine.
However, I did like the 25mm bar on the street, but it really is too much for most performance handling uses (my opinion).
Those G2 springs are similar to my springs (slightly softer, I think, but not much). I think the hotchkiss rear bar will probably be too much. I'd suggest the ST or Strano 35mm bar for the front and either start with a 19mm rear (since it's on there and "free") and consider a 21mm 1LE rear bar or a 22 mm hollow Strano bar if you think you need it.
I should mention that I'm running spring rates of roughly 600/200 and Koni DA's on my car. So the bars are part of the package and your results may be different than mine.
However, I did like the 25mm bar on the street, but it really is too much for most performance handling uses (my opinion).
Those G2 springs are similar to my springs (slightly softer, I think, but not much). I think the hotchkiss rear bar will probably be too much. I'd suggest the ST or Strano 35mm bar for the front and either start with a 19mm rear (since it's on there and "free") and consider a 21mm 1LE rear bar or a 22 mm hollow Strano bar if you think you need it.
Originally Posted by WAHUSKER
Sam makes a 35? I didn't se it on his site. Time to call him I guess. Thanks Kevin.
Like your website BTW....never been to it before....some good **** there!
Like your website BTW....never been to it before....some good **** there!
No problem, thanks. Glad you like the site, I've got more work to do on it (when I get time).
Sam makes a hollow 35mm front bar and a hollow 22mm rear. The front bar is 13 lbs lighter (as I remember) than the Suspension Techniques bar (while being only slightly softer). The rear bar weighs 8 lbs as I remember (there is one in my garage in the pile of sway bars in the corner).
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Loma Linda, CA
Originally Posted by trackbird
I have run the stock bars (30/19) on my car (haven't we all?) and when autocrossing (with stiff springs and Koni's), I was getting lots of body roll and unloading the inside rear tire. The car was lazy and I was not real happy with the way it was driving. I swapped on the ST bars (35/25) and that was enough that I was unloading the inside rear tire, not because of the body roll on the front of the car (not directly, but it also helped), but because the stiff bar was lifting the inside rear wheel. Then, I switched to a combination of the ST 35mm front and a 19mm rear and the car is 100% better. However, I'm going to add one of Sams 22mm hollow rear bars (on the rear) to see if I like it better or not.
I should mention that I'm running spring rates of roughly 600/200 and Koni DA's on my car. So the bars are part of the package and your results may be different than mine.
However, I did like the 25mm bar on the street, but it really is too much for most performance handling uses (my opinion).
Those G2 springs are similar to my springs (slightly softer, I think, but not much). I think the hotchkiss rear bar will probably be too much. I'd suggest the ST or Strano 35mm bar for the front and either start with a 19mm rear (since it's on there and "free") and consider a 21mm 1LE rear bar or a 22 mm hollow Strano bar if you think you need it.
I should mention that I'm running spring rates of roughly 600/200 and Koni DA's on my car. So the bars are part of the package and your results may be different than mine.
However, I did like the 25mm bar on the street, but it really is too much for most performance handling uses (my opinion).
Those G2 springs are similar to my springs (slightly softer, I think, but not much). I think the hotchkiss rear bar will probably be too much. I'd suggest the ST or Strano 35mm bar for the front and either start with a 19mm rear (since it's on there and "free") and consider a 21mm 1LE rear bar or a 22 mm hollow Strano bar if you think you need it.
Because the rear G2 springs are so damn stiff, I'd prefer a smaller rear bar vs. a bigger one. But it's not quite that simple.......... A LOT of other stuff plays into sizing you might want or need on the rear bar. For example, the front bar and springs, the shocks you are running all around, tire size, and what you primarily do with the car as well.
The 35 front will work just fine. Many of us are running a spring rate in the ballpark of those fronts with a 35. It is in no way "too much". The rear, I'd wait on. I'd do what Kevin recommends and start with a front bar, and re-evaluate from there. Should we determine you need a touch more bar, we can always add it later.
Should be noted that Trackbird had broken rear shocks for a large part of the time he ran the larger rear bar, and part of the time with the stock rear bar. The bigger bar was helping cover the bad dampers, but even then it seems the car was better with a stock rear bar.
I run 35/22 bars on my car with 600 front and 150 rear springs. Remember that bars add wheel rate like springs do. So a lot of spring and a lot of bar in the back can be too much of a "good" thing. Because of suspension differences front vs. rear I use a moderate amount of both spring and bar on the back, while I use a lot of front bar and somewhat more spring.
The 35 front will work just fine. Many of us are running a spring rate in the ballpark of those fronts with a 35. It is in no way "too much". The rear, I'd wait on. I'd do what Kevin recommends and start with a front bar, and re-evaluate from there. Should we determine you need a touch more bar, we can always add it later.
Should be noted that Trackbird had broken rear shocks for a large part of the time he ran the larger rear bar, and part of the time with the stock rear bar. The bigger bar was helping cover the bad dampers, but even then it seems the car was better with a stock rear bar.
I run 35/22 bars on my car with 600 front and 150 rear springs. Remember that bars add wheel rate like springs do. So a lot of spring and a lot of bar in the back can be too much of a "good" thing. Because of suspension differences front vs. rear I use a moderate amount of both spring and bar on the back, while I use a lot of front bar and somewhat more spring.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
Originally Posted by Sam Strano
Should be noted that Trackbird had broken rear shocks for a large part of the time he ran the larger rear bar, and part of the time with the stock rear bar. The bigger bar was helping cover the bad dampers, but even then it seems the car was better with a stock rear bar.
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Loma Linda, CA
Originally Posted by Sam Strano
Because the rear G2 springs are so damn stiff, I'd prefer a smaller rear bar vs. a bigger one. But it's not quite that simple.......... A LOT of other stuff plays into sizing you might want or need on the rear bar. For example, the front bar and springs, the shocks you are running all around, tire size, and what you primarily do with the car as well.
The 35 front will work just fine. Many of us are running a spring rate in the ballpark of those fronts with a 35. It is in no way "too much". The rear, I'd wait on. I'd do what Kevin recommends and start with a front bar, and re-evaluate from there. Should we determine you need a touch more bar, we can always add it later.
Should be noted that Trackbird had broken rear shocks for a large part of the time he ran the larger rear bar, and part of the time with the stock rear bar. The bigger bar was helping cover the bad dampers, but even then it seems the car was better with a stock rear bar.
I run 35/22 bars on my car with 600 front and 150 rear springs. Remember that bars add wheel rate like springs do. So a lot of spring and a lot of bar in the back can be too much of a "good" thing. Because of suspension differences front vs. rear I use a moderate amount of both spring and bar on the back, while I use a lot of front bar and somewhat more spring.
The 35 front will work just fine. Many of us are running a spring rate in the ballpark of those fronts with a 35. It is in no way "too much". The rear, I'd wait on. I'd do what Kevin recommends and start with a front bar, and re-evaluate from there. Should we determine you need a touch more bar, we can always add it later.
Should be noted that Trackbird had broken rear shocks for a large part of the time he ran the larger rear bar, and part of the time with the stock rear bar. The bigger bar was helping cover the bad dampers, but even then it seems the car was better with a stock rear bar.
I run 35/22 bars on my car with 600 front and 150 rear springs. Remember that bars add wheel rate like springs do. So a lot of spring and a lot of bar in the back can be too much of a "good" thing. Because of suspension differences front vs. rear I use a moderate amount of both spring and bar on the back, while I use a lot of front bar and somewhat more spring.
Thanks for your reply Sam, you two guys are just a wealth of knowledge.
I have read countless posts from both of you and others on the board and your postings have helped me shape my car and i think its coming along really well. As far as shocks go i bought the springs/shocks used from a former ls1tech member and he told me they were revalved bilsteins by you Sam, and i recently purchased 3rd gen bilstien hd's for the rear. After both of your posts i asked my friend to order me the ST 35mm front sway bar. Thanks again.