Pinion Angle Question. Please answer ASAP
Pinion Angle Question. Please answer ASAP I am setting the pinion angle in my car and have some confusion as to were to take my messurmaent.
I know I am supposed to messure the degree of the pinion, But were do I messure the other angle at? On the drive shaft or the tail shaft of the transmition?
Is it the delta of the pinion and drive shaft or the delta of the pinion and transmition tailshaft?
I know I am supposed to messure the degree of the pinion, But were do I messure the other angle at? On the drive shaft or the tail shaft of the transmition?
Is it the delta of the pinion and drive shaft or the delta of the pinion and transmition tailshaft?
Measure the pinion yoke. You want 2 to 2.5 degrees down. The driveshaft etc. is irrelevant for pinion angle. Pinion angle is in relation to the ground.
Originally Posted by Viper
I looked at that link. There is nothing there.
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ok, So I got two different answers. Which one is correct? I am not trying to be rude, I am trully confused. I put my pinion angle to 2 degrees down from the driveshaft. I messured the driveshaft and pinion angle before I removed the factory torque arm, with the rear end preloaded. It was at 0'. I then installed the BMR Adjustable Torque arm and set the pinion to Driveshaft angle to -2', that is the pinion down 2'. It did nothing to help my car hook. It did do one thing, I now have a loud clanging noise when it shifts from 2 to 3 rd. It does not do this any other time. I torqued and retorqued everything back there. I can not get it to quit. One other thing, it only does this at part throttle, when I am just cruising around town. At full throttle it does not do this. I am at a loss.
All I know is I spent about 1500 bucks on subframe connectors, lower control arms, and the torque arm, and all I have to show for it is a clunk from 2-3 at regular cruising throttle. So far it did not help to hook or anything.
I wish I could blame this all on my monstor hp motor, but the truth is my motor is a stock motor with 66,000 miles on it, a set of headers that made me loose power, and a whisper lid. I have not even tried to see if it would hook with the NO2 yet. I am thinking of dumping this f-body and going Mustang. ....... No I am kidding, I would neve do that. But I am getting frustrated in buying things for this car that are supposed to make it better or work, and getting nothing in return.
All I know is I spent about 1500 bucks on subframe connectors, lower control arms, and the torque arm, and all I have to show for it is a clunk from 2-3 at regular cruising throttle. So far it did not help to hook or anything.
I wish I could blame this all on my monstor hp motor, but the truth is my motor is a stock motor with 66,000 miles on it, a set of headers that made me loose power, and a whisper lid. I have not even tried to see if it would hook with the NO2 yet. I am thinking of dumping this f-body and going Mustang. ....... No I am kidding, I would neve do that. But I am getting frustrated in buying things for this car that are supposed to make it better or work, and getting nothing in return.
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www.carcraft.com/howto/91758/
I suggest this one better info wrong car but close;
http://buickperformance.com/Pinion.htm
Or this one fits better,
www.bmrfabrication.com/instructions/tp001.htm
I suggest this one better info wrong car but close;
http://buickperformance.com/Pinion.htm
Or this one fits better,
www.bmrfabrication.com/instructions/tp001.htm
The driveshaft versus pinion is driveline angle. The chassis is reacting to pinion angle in reference to the ground.
Case in point you have a transmission output shaft at 12 inches off the ground. The pinion is 14 3/4 inches off the ground. The driveshaft is now running up to the driveshaft. Now how would you measure pinion angle???????
Case in point you have a transmission output shaft at 12 inches off the ground. The pinion is 14 3/4 inches off the ground. The driveshaft is now running up to the driveshaft. Now how would you measure pinion angle???????
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,060
Likes: 0
From: MI
Here ya go this will show where to measure and what pinion angle relate's to.http://www.rosslertrans.com/Tips/Pinon.htm
The Madman method is how I have done it for years now. After reading countless debates with conflicting information I decided on that way and it works perfect. I recommend going back to the stock setting first, then adjusting it. That clunking you mentioned could be from another source like LCA's not properly tightened.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,060
Likes: 0
From: MI
Originally Posted by MADMAN
The driveshaft versus pinion is driveline angle. The chassis is reacting to pinion angle in reference to the ground.
Case in point you have a transmission output shaft at 12 inches off the ground. The pinion is 14 3/4 inches off the ground. The driveshaft is now running up to the driveshaft. Now how would you measure pinion angle???????
Case in point you have a transmission output shaft at 12 inches off the ground. The pinion is 14 3/4 inches off the ground. The driveshaft is now running up to the driveshaft. Now how would you measure pinion angle???????
I'm a little confused at this statement,(The driveshaft is now running up to the driveshaft.) for one thing I measure in degree of angle and not inches so if you trans output shaft is at say + 2* and the pinion yoke is at -2* I would have to adjust the torque arm to come up with a -4* at the pinion so the real pinion angle is -2* because the trans. angle was a +2*. So with your figure's in inches and the ground I would have to adjust the the trans. and the rear 2 & 3/4" to get back to a 0* angle and then figure how many inches I need to adjust the rear end to come up with a -2* pinion angle case in point. I rechecked the torque on them too. I got my parts in on different days. I first installed the lower control arms. Dove it a few days and got the subframe connectors in with the torque arm but no crossbar for the torque arm. So I welded the subframe connectors in. I drove it the entire weekend with no noises. Then the torque arm crossmember came in on Monday, so I welded it on that night and instalde the torque arm and pan hard rod. Thats when the noise started. It only does it from 2-3 shift. Sometimes when I hit a god bump in the rode it does it too. I had the trans all firmed up with LS1 Edit. Last night I threw the Stock trans file back in it with the slow shifts and stuff. I drove it 200 miles today. It still does the noise but not as loud. One thing I did notice last night was the mounting braket for the tunnel brace is touching the cross bar on the passenger side. I let a friend drive it today and I sat on the passenger side and it feels like the clang is under the passenger seat. So now I am begining to think the noise is because the bar is touching the bracket mount and causing the floorpan to act like a big azz drum. I am trying to deside if I want to cut the bar loose and reweld it up or just cut off the bracket mount on that side. It would be easier to remove the bracket mount. I do not think I need it any more because of the subframe connectors and the cross bar. What do ya'll think? This is a T-top car not a convertable.
Shoot, acording to what I am reading the only reason to have an adjustable torque arm is to correct for miss alignment like if you lowered or raised the car. Since my car is at stock height, I waisted all that money on a torque arm. I bought it with the understanding it would help to make the car hook. This sucks man. I would not have bought it if it was not going to help make the car hook!!!! What are the benifits of this thing? All I have gotten so far is a freaking drum clunk noise that drives me crazy!!!
Okay guys here are the facts.
The object of pinion angle is to raise the pinion yoke under load, which in turn loads the chassis and plants the rear tires. The pinion is set in relation to the ground which is what we are racing on. The driveshaft is not a factor in this equation because for 1 the driveshaft doesnt plant the tires and 2 that is why we run ujoints. It doesnt matter where the motor is in height , whether it is higher or lower than the pinion. The pinion is going to rotate up due to the torque of the pinion trying to rotate over the ring gear, which in turn will lift the body and plant the tires. This is called antisquat!(considering the other misconception is that the car squats on launch) You arent trying to remove driveline mis alignment you are trying to get the car to "PLANT" the tires at the hit.
All I can say to the naysayers is measure it your way then run the car. Then try it my way and see which is faster!
The object of pinion angle is to raise the pinion yoke under load, which in turn loads the chassis and plants the rear tires. The pinion is set in relation to the ground which is what we are racing on. The driveshaft is not a factor in this equation because for 1 the driveshaft doesnt plant the tires and 2 that is why we run ujoints. It doesnt matter where the motor is in height , whether it is higher or lower than the pinion. The pinion is going to rotate up due to the torque of the pinion trying to rotate over the ring gear, which in turn will lift the body and plant the tires. This is called antisquat!(considering the other misconception is that the car squats on launch) You arent trying to remove driveline mis alignment you are trying to get the car to "PLANT" the tires at the hit.
All I can say to the naysayers is measure it your way then run the car. Then try it my way and see which is faster!
well let me say I did it the wat BMR said to do it and all I get is the same old tire smoke I had with the factory torque arm and now a clunk at part throttle 2-3 upshift. I am going to try it madmans way and see what happens. I still have a few questions to ask madman.
1) If I am going to drive this car so 150 to 200 miles a day would you sujest to set it like you say only when I plan to go out and play or do you think the u joints will live for a little while like that.
2) I am not trying to start a flame here, I am realy confused as to how it helps to plant the tires in the case of our f-bodys. I understand the torque arm is going to try and life the car up, but how is it exactly that pointing the pinion down will make it life harder or plant the tires harder?
3) I do not see how the pinion can go from say 2 degrees down versus driveshaft to 0 when the torque arms is going keep the same angle on the driveshaft to pinion.
4) I know I have seen a shitload of 4x4's running around that the u joints have alot more then 2 degrees in them when you look at the pinion versus the driveshaft. How do they live for so long?
I just don't want to drop the driveshaft out of the car when I am 100 miles out in the desert going to freaking work. So I am just trying to learn as much as I can before I make a big mistake.
1) If I am going to drive this car so 150 to 200 miles a day would you sujest to set it like you say only when I plan to go out and play or do you think the u joints will live for a little while like that.
2) I am not trying to start a flame here, I am realy confused as to how it helps to plant the tires in the case of our f-bodys. I understand the torque arm is going to try and life the car up, but how is it exactly that pointing the pinion down will make it life harder or plant the tires harder?
3) I do not see how the pinion can go from say 2 degrees down versus driveshaft to 0 when the torque arms is going keep the same angle on the driveshaft to pinion.
4) I know I have seen a shitload of 4x4's running around that the u joints have alot more then 2 degrees in them when you look at the pinion versus the driveshaft. How do they live for so long?
I just don't want to drop the driveshaft out of the car when I am 100 miles out in the desert going to freaking work. So I am just trying to learn as much as I can before I make a big mistake.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,060
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From: MI
When I had my rear end set just with the rear end pinion angle in mind -2* I had a high speed rear end vibration, now that I have taken into consideration the trans. angle in relation to the rear end and adjusted the pinion angle to get to a 0* trans./pinion angle then adjusted another -2* pinion angle in now the high speed vibration is gone and the car hook's better than before. Either way your coming up with -2* pinion angle (to the ground) one way gives you better drivetran angle too for better u-joint wear & less driveline vibration.