As I stated, I'm not argueing one way or the other, just trying to present both sides. Someone said "my harness holds me so tight, I couldn't hit anything. So, I reminded them that harnesses stretch (as does your body). That's all.

However, since you brought it up.

http://www.cofba.org/cgi-bin/ultimat...7;t=003844;p=1

It's a guy in my local club. He was stupid and rolled this one at well over 100 mph. He walked away. I'm 99% sure that he was thrown around violently enough that the side bars (above the doors of the car, part of the halo), would have killed him. I'm sure the cage would have held, but I am sure he would have been tossed around hard enough to impact his head on the halo bars. This may be a rare case however.

Of course, the other side:

http://www.m90.org/view_image.php?image_id=1802

A WRC crash where the cage didn't hold (but the impacts didn't move the people against the harnesses much). In this case, "dead without a cage" would have certainly been true (but it is a race car).

More info:

http://corner-carvers.com/forums/sho...highlight=cage

http://corner-carvers.com/forums/sho...highlight=cage

More photos of cars that people walked away from that a cage may have been a liability (and maybe not).

As I said, everyone has to weigh the information and make their own decision. I can't say there is a right or wrong answer for this one, it's up to each person to decide on their own. I am at that point right now, I need/want to install at least a roll bar and harnesses for track days, but I don't want to deal with a bar/cage in a daily driver (due to the potential danger). Instead, I'm looking into buying a 3rd gen for a track car and I'll cage it. But, that depends if the car I found comes through or not.

Again, consider the information and make your own decision. I'm not telling you what to do, just presenting info.

 

I can't and won't comment on the finances of other users, but I decided that a single purpose race car is definitely the way to go, so I now have street car and a race car. Oh, how I wish a had the money back that I wasted on my first SS! (Are these the four stages of racer death?)

 

with the cage in my car the side bars are pretty low. they hardly come up higher than the sides of the seat. also the cross bar behind the seats comes out with 2 pins so the back seat isnt that hard to access. the cage i have is a bmr 6 point weld in cage. its in my daily driver.

 

Wow. That is some nasty wrecks.

Trackbird, your a guru. You know an aweful lot. Thanks for the info.

 

Nah, I'm just a student of reality (and I take good notes, I guess.....).

I just want to see everyone alive to play another day. If you get killed by your safety gear, what good was it? If you make an informed choice, at least you know what you are getting into.

Be careful.

 

bottom line - don't put a cage in your car unless you wear a helmet every time you drive it. Otherwise, you will die if you get in a good sized wreck. Cages are NOT intended to be used without a helmet. Your head WILL hit the bar and you will die. The cage will hold the car together nicely though, so your heirs can probably still salvage it and return it to track use

 

That's not what I said. I simply showed some wrecks where a cage would have been "used" (to support the roof), but it's a good guess that the person being thrown around inside the car would/could have impacted that cage. I also showed a cage that didn't hold, but the seatbelts did. You will have to weigh the options and make your own decisions. I'm still working on my decision. I had a cage in my 1989 Formula and it was very close to my head. If I had been T-boned in that car, I'd have splattered my head for sure. I know that was the case in that car. Your cage locations and clearance may vary. Remember, most harnesses are not DOT legal and getting stopped while wearing one could get you a "no seatbelt" ticket. I'm not saying it will, but there is potential for a member of law enforcement to try such a thing. So, wearing 3 point belts on the street with a cage in the car would be my primary concern.

A cage has the potential to injure or kill you if you run into it at a high speed. So, you need to find a plan to not hit it (unprotected) at a high speed. Helmets, seatbelt (harnesses), additional clearance (lower the seat on the mounts), etc. Everyone will have a different answer. I do feel that too many cars get caged with no thought about the potential dangers of "safety gear". The natural assumption is that safety gear makes a car safer. The reality is not so cut and dried.

 

SOrry Trackbird, I didn't mean that was your bottom line - that's my bottom line. In my opinion, +cage - helmet = die in wreck.

No cages in street cars for me.

Let's not even start talking about what can happen if you install a 5 point harness in a car without a cage, roll it, and the roof crushes down on you - but the 5th point of the harness keeps your body from slumping down in the seat..... splat goes the head.

 

Wow. Those are some wild pics and videos. I am surprised that nobody has come up with some sort of "street" cage that you would not impact with, but could provide some support for the roof.

 

I have addressed cages in street cars in other threads. Few people at this site want to hear about it, but cages in street cars are extraordinarily dangerous. Camaros and Vettes are much safer w/o cages on the street. The occupants heads will be pulvarized in cars with cages in serious accidents w/o helmets.

 

A cage, with halo bars beside your head, would be quite dangerous.

A roll bar, with only a bar behind your head, and a seat back/headrest between your head and the bar, wouldn't be nearly so bad... I think that's the compromise solution for some roof support.

 

It is much better, that's for sure. My only concern is that F-body seats are famous for breaking if you are rear ended and dumping you in the back seat, or into the cage or the cross bar on the cage. I do think it's a better compromise, but I still have concerns about the stock seats (Recaros would be better).

 

...and some of us have our heads right up there on the roof line too.

I may try to bolt my seatback to the cross bar. (Corbeau)

I saw an adjustable connector on ioport that would allow for adjustments when moving the seat forward or back, or when changing the recline. (I think it would work for changing the recline, but now that I mention it, I'm not so sure about that. I'd have to look at their design again.)

 

Yea, the "arc" on the way back is my concern. My other concern with seat back braces is that the seat needs to be strong enough to hold them. If the seat folds over and you wind up with a seat back support shoved into the middle of your back (while the seat gives around it), you may just have spinal damage. I'd use a seat with a "shell" type of construction to use a seat back brace. That's my personal thought, everyone's acceptable risk levels will be different.

 

In my personal opinion the added safety added to the car for dragstrip use far outweighs the possible additional danger of on street use. When your running 11s or lower at 115 or higher trap speeds a rollover WILL kill or paralyze you; even with our newer cars and mandated rollover standards for the roof. It will crush, at least enough to destroy your spine. I am just not willing to leave my self unprotected on the strip. And when comes to the side bars, any intrusion protection they can offer me on the street outweighs the danger they pose of being a padded bar close to my midsection. Side impact collisions are very frightening to me.

Also, I'm not convinced that the hoop bar poses much risk. I've investigated a pretty good number of police car crashes with an un-padded cage hoop 4-6" behind the driver's head and the shotgun mounted to the hoop usually about 2-3" behind the head. That a lot of hard steel very close to the melon during some accidents where the driver is bounced around the interior like a lone sock in the dryer. Some of these crashes are at 100-plus MPH. And some of the dipshits weren't even wearing their seatbelts. Honestly, I have yet to document any REAL injuries caused by the hoop/cage in the police car. Most of the time the hoop/cage protected the cop from rollover or side intrusion. BTW these cage hoops are made with standard roll bar tubing 1 3/4" with .134 thickness.

In summary, I don't believe your standard 6-point padded roll bar poses any significant risk during normal street driving. With that said I'll have my WolfeRaceCraft chrome moly 5-point bar installed before this points season starts.

 

We just said that a 4 or 6 point bar is much safer than a full cage (just a few posts ago). The main bar of concern is the halo bar (that runs above the side windows). In my formula it was about 3" from my head and would have hit me right above the ear. If I was t-boned in an intersection, it would have been like getting hit in the head (full force and then some) with a baseball bat. And, I'm going to guess it had an excellent chance of being fatal.

Yes, safety at the strip is important. And in this case, you've made your decision on what is "worth the risk" with regard to safety gear. That is what I've been saying all along, look at the risks and make your decision based on that information. You've already done that.

And, actually, the red TA I showed was rolled at 100+ (he says he lost it at 140, I don't think it rolled at that speed, but 100+ is a good guess). He walked away.

 

Very intresting thread. Yall think the Jeeps are dangerous too? It looks they got some type of rollbar. Yall think the risk is kinda equal driving a jeep compared to running a rollbar on our cars?