Would the 32mm and 21mm 1LE sway bars be a good upgrade from stock? Or go bigger with an aftermarket setup?

 

I put a SLP 1LE 21mm rear sway bar on my 98Z(had 18mm).Big difference in sway control.1LE is what GM considered optimum for controlling sway under road race situations.Can't comment on front as I'm still running 98Z OEM sway bar.

 

I love my 1LE kit. It was a very noticeable improvement over stock. I haven't driven an F-body with bigger swaybars, so I can't say if "bigger is better" in this case, but I'm very pleased with mine.


-Mike

 

im looking into later upgrading the suspension and by looking at how small the stock sway bars are i think that will be my first suspesion mod,but wat will be a good size to go w/?i have a stock 98 ss conv.i jnow im my 89 camaro i have upgraded to 34 mm f/23 mm rear felt nicer after the install

 

I use to have the 1LE setup, then I switched it out for the Strano bars and haven't looked back once.

 

Depends on what you use the car for.

 

MOstly just for hard street driving, some AutoX, and maybe sometime try to drive around Road Atlanta or something like that.

 

I'd recommend against a 32/21 combo, which was only "1LE" in '93 when they used a stiffer front spring with the stock Z28 rears. Putting the 32/21 on a car with stock springs all around results in a rear biased balance, which isn't what you want or need on an f-body.

If you opt 32 in front, stay 19mm in the back. Our bars are 35 front, 22mm rear, both hollow. The front bar is some 30% stiffer than a "1LE" bar, and 45% or so more than the bar you currently have. The rear bar is some 33% stiffer than the rear bar you currently have. The front of the car needs more bar increase than the rear does, the front has a camber curve that needs controlled, the rear does not. The front of the car carries the majority of the weight, the rear does not. The rear is a solid axle and too much rear bar stiffness vs. the front makes the rear jumpy and skatey.....

I'm going to strongly suggest you think about a set of my bars... $379 for the pair (or $199 front, $189 rear if separately purchased) and that price includes new bushings which would be $80 or so if you bought them for "1LE" bars over the cost of the bars themselves.... And you have some input already from someone who has used both.

 

Thanks Sam.....so you think these bars would complement my DMS springs and Koni SA's?

 

I do. The shocks are the same as I run. The springs are not, but are similar as best we can tell in the rates they normally operate in. That's the trouble with progressive springs.

Anyway, the DMS springs use a slightly higher rear rate than I usually prefer, and in that case you definitely do not want a really large rear bar. But if you don't do something with the rear bar and increase the front, you'll likely find the rear to be a little lazy feeling.

 

I think I'm going to ditch the DMS springs sometime next summer and go with the Ground Control

 

You'll be quite happy with that decision. Sam's front bar is light, really light (it's hollow). I had one (but didn't install it due to a cross threaded bolt) and it is amazing how much lighter it is than my 35mm solid bar.... I also have Sam's 22mm hollow rear bar on my car right now and it's excellent. I've been extremely happy with the rear bar (and it's superlight). I think you'll have good luck with both of them and the ground controls.

 

sam wat are some good 1" drop springs for my 98 ss vert?and wat sway bars will match the best remeber the vert is a bit more heavy then hardtops?

 

I prefer the Hotchkis (1") or the Eibach Pro-kit for the LT1 cars (they are 1.25" lower and fit the LS1's perfectly, just offer a different height/spring rate). Which I'd recommend would depend on a number of things like the ride and handling desired, but also things like what shocks you are planning on using with the springs.

I use those springs because they are known commodities, right down the the actual spring rates. No guesswork included here, and the rates are right in the range I think best.

 

About two weeks ago I replaced my stock 30mm bar with Sam's front 35mm hollow bar and I can tell you the car handles great now. I also feel the rear (still stock) is a bit lazey so you should go for his rear 22mm hollow bar as well. I'm going to order his rear bar in the next few weeks.

 

Before you buy GM 1LE sway bars you should get
underneath and measure what you've got - I found
mine had 32mm, 21mm bars as-delivered. If you
don't happen to have a collection of micrometers
an adjustable wrench (as calipers) and ruler will do.

 

I was under the assumption that the SS's and WS6's came with 32 and 21mm bars?

 

All 1LE's that GM build (though '99), SS's and WS6's have 32mm front bars. ONLY the '93 1LE had a 21mm rear bar with the 32, and it used a stiffer front spring also which a normal car doesn't have.

35/21's are Bilstein Ultra Suspension setups from SLP, and reportedly '01-02 1LE's (that are SLP 1LE, not GM 1LE).

So when the term "1LE" bars is thrown around it means different things. Most usually assumed to mean 32/21, which is actually only correct for the '93 model. '94-99's had 32/19mm bars.

 

Sam,

I have been reading your posts over the past few days and you have a great depth of knowledge on the subject and I thank you for sharing.

From what I have read, buyers must be careful with their choice of rear sway bars, and that it's stiffness must be increased by a certain proportion in relation to the front bars, so that you do not introduce too much oversteer. That makes perfect sense.

For us daily drivers that do not want to do much more than reduce body roll on say a on/exit ramp, would there be any ill effects of just upgrading the front sway bar, and adding poly urethane bushings all the way around? It seems that upgrading the front bars would have the biggest gains since these cars are nose heavy. Would this introduce too much understeer..... or is it not as simple as I make it out to be?

I imagine that upgrading both the front and rear at the same time would be the best option, so that the cars handling characteristics are kept balanced, but curiosity is driving this question.

Thanks again!

 

That's a great question. It's not uncommon for the front bar to be done, and it is a big help in the way the car feels. The balance of the car isn't all that bad provided the car is not driven near the limit and the car has a performance alignment. I used to run a larger front bar when I autocrossed in a stock class where we are not allowed to change the rear bar. With a aggressive alignment, the balance of the car was pretty similar steady state, but much more stable transitionally, the car did roll less and that in turn helped get more power down. But I had to do somethings to help the balance like run more pressure in the rear tires (upping their spring rate) to counter the change of only a front bar. Well worth it, the car was faster that way. However, the rules are what drove that setup. Now in a different class, I do run a larger rear bar as well, our 35/22 hollow set.

But the shocks play in a great deal here. The folks that opt to buy just a front and end up happy with that choice almost always have shocks they can adjust. In short, when you add a front bar you are doing more than just cutting body roll, you are also quickening the response of the front end of the car. What often happens, and I think was found by Z28camaroLS1 in a previous post is that the front ends up feeling great, but the rear is rather slow to respond relative to the front end of the car. More rebound damping in the rear speeds up that response. So if you have say Koni's, the front bar only is a much more workable plan than if you have Bilstein's, or some other non-adjustable damper. If you can get the response you like by upping the rebound damping and the ride is not objectionable and the balance of the car is fine, then it's a done deal. However, most folks find they have to run a lot of rebound damping to get the front and rear to feel in sync, and that causes a ride/tire compliance penalty that most folks don't like and the often opt to add the rear bar.

If you aren't the best driver in the world, or you have cheap tires, or you really don't drive the car all that hard then a front bar only might very well suffice. If you want the car to be balanced at say 70% or more of the limit, you don't want a kind of two-phase turn in where the front and rear aren't working together (again this is not a problem with good adjustable dampers), then you'd want a set of bars that are matched up.

The Poly bushings do not add any stiffness to the bar. They make the bar react or come into action a very slight bit quicker, but don't make the bar any stiffer. And of course you are also getting poly on the front bar, so the bushing change up front cancels the rear out. You are back to the actual stiffness of the bar.

Did that make sense?????