tardy007

It seems like I can get DA on all four corners for around $275 more than the SA. Would you guys recommend the DA or is it not worth it?

Thanks!!!

barneygookle

iTrader: (9)

Hey, check with Sam Strano nice informative people..

jmorgan

iTrader: (3)

Very, cool guy with lots of information. Talked to him today. He will be getting my business.

tardy007

I have heard good things about Strano, planning on talking to him as well, just thought I would ask here as well for other opinions.

chicane

DA all the way.

**EDIT: The only reason I say this is because a life long friend, John Ames a multiple time and multiple consecutive year SCCA Solo II National Champion with multiple 1000 point event wins...... uses DA's on the chassis he drives to those championships, not to mention drives every day. Thinking that the chassis being a lighter sprung and stay-bared, might benifit those looking for the best handling without going to a spring and bar package that isnt really necessary.

Big rates and bars are not the answer....... and I think John proved that with multiple and consecutive championships in his F-body.

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

Just depends if your really gona take the time to adjust them and play around with them to see what you like.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

He's talking about the "sale" SLP is having, I'm sure.

Let me ask you this: Would you normally spend an extra $275 for something that really does you no good? Yes, that price they have is nice, but ask yourself why the price is nice. They are old stock, SLP hasn't built SS's since 2002 and those shocks have been sitting for at least that long. Some folks bought them a year or so ago, and there have been a few failures, probably stemming from dry seals. Do you know how DA's work? Do you know that I have DA's for my car.... yet I run it on SA's. I've found the compression damping to be of no help (and if you ever see a dyno run of those shocks you'll see how small the range is and realize why you don't need to spend the money.

Save you $275, buy SA's and put that you saved to some bars or springs. (I'd vote bars first).

tardy007

Thanks Sam, I will do that. Sent you a pm as well.

dailydriver

Could this be because he ran in F/Stock, where he could not change springs/swaybars (or was it on his E/Street Prepared car where he could use everything, including the extra adjustments of the DAs?)?? I don't remember, it's been a while since I was in the autocross scene.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

That's funny, because when John owned that car, it had Bilstein's on it, not Koni's. And Nationals does not use a system of points, that's for local events.

I have some of my own SCCA Champiohships. I also know John as well.(though not well, but enough to say hi, and that I'm comfortable asking him a question).

I don't believe BIG springs are wise either, but what's big??? I wholly disagree that a big front bar is unwarranted or unwanted. I was the pretty much the first to use one on a 4th gen, and dial a car in with one for Solo. Seems to work just fine, because since we started with the big bars we've won most everything Nationally in FS and ESP with only one exception that I can think of.

b55baron

I followed Sam's advise and got the Koni SA's as well as the springs, sway bars, and Ground Control kit that he recommended. I couldn't be more pleased with the way the car handles. All the components he recommended work well together. He also spent quite a bit of time on the phone with me explaining how the suspension works and finding out what I wanted the car to do.

Quality parts and advice with first rate customer service. Can't ask for any more.

chicane

It's had "Delcostein"s, Bilstein's and Koni's..... and with that, I am sure you know who Mr. Norrin is ??

Sorry about the local event comment..... it was mearly to point out how well the chassis worked without dropping it into the weeds and using elevated spring rates too much over stock. Afterall, even a couple of one thousand pointers at local event's isnt something to sneeze at.

What's big ?? Uh....... I dont know your definition of big to begin with, so it could be a mute point or maybe not. 800+ would be getting to the large size by my definition for an X car. I myself run 720F/320R.... but Im not killing cones. Im also not a big fan of big bar/light springs either unless the chassis is utilizing a DA type dampner. Allowing the chassis to roll and be more compliant from using a softer spring package and tuning the amount of transfer with bound is going to yield a faster chassis that makes better contact with the shoes.

BTW, are you a G.R.A. member ?? And what year did you start out with a 4th Gen ??

YellowToy/A

iTrader: (1)

I am not a big gun here, no 1000 pointers. I got my koni da shocks on on ebay for 400$. I have a stock ws6 sway bar. I have ground control springs that are 400 lb/in. My car is a sunny day driver. When i put the shocks and springs on I did not like the bound. Got under the car and a few clicks and a test drive later I was very happy. If u can buy the da do it. Koni has a life time warrenty to the first owner. They will rebuild the shocks for 140$ no matter what,as long as you dont bend them.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Have no idea who Mister Norrin is...

I think your springs are big, I run 600 front, 150 rears with a 35 front bar and a hollow 22 rear. And I do it on Koni SA's.

Shocks are not a replacement for spring rate. If you want more rate, you want more rate. In the example given by YellowToy/A, the bump helped because he has 400 pound springs, but more because I suspect he might have some heavier rims and tires on the car and the bump helped with the higher unsprung weight, which is, their job.

I agree that softer is generally better for grip, which is why I don't run stiff in the rear. But we've found that a big front bar controls the camber curve better than springs do and without the compliance hit of the higher rate springs.

I'm not a GRA member. I've been autoxing and tracking f-bodies since 1997, working with 4th gens not much after that and bought my own in 9/2000. And I've won an F-stock ProSolo title in it in 2002, and an ESP National Championship with it in 2004 (my first being in a 3rd gen in 2002).

Point is DA's are far from necessary, and even for those that know how to use them, like me, I find them to be useless most of the time. I OWN a set, and they are not on the car, but on a shelf as spares to my more reliable SA's. MHO. YMMV.

If someone want's DA's, fine, I sell those as well (and make a better profit margin on them as well to boot). I'm just trying to save y'all from spending money where it really doesn't help. Are the places for DA's? Sure, but they are few and far between and very few people actually know the procedure for setting up DA's and why and when you'd change your bump settings. For that matter most folks don't have a clue how the bump they are changing works or what they are effecting.....

And not for nothing, but it's a damper, not a dampner or dampener... We aren't making something wet here. We are damping out motion.

chicane

I guess if you knew Doug Norrin, owner of Global West, you would know chassis set up and specifics of the direction taken in the component selection. Doug approach is a little different concerning soft rate springs and the employment of DA damper and he is also a Koni freak. My bad for the spelling error.... I didnt know my reply was going to be redlined.

Stay bars have nothing to do with controlling camber geometry or the rate of it. Only the SLA configuration of the suspension does. But I know, that you know that. And besides, the SLA and the McStrut FE suspension is a static camber gain suspension..... not a dynamic gain suspension...... so its built into the control arms and not controllled by anything but the control arms.

I am a GRA member. I am also a former Guldstrand, special projects manager. I dont have any championships, I just bulid champoinship chassis and have been building the 4th gen since..... I dunno, 1987 and had a 5th Gen before it was released to the consumer public doing R&D for GM to build a race car out of it for a once configured "World Challenge Series" (was defunct before the ink dried) effort.

BTW a 720/320 package is actually quite light, but employing TA Penske's makes up for the light rate effect and allows the suspension to be more compliant.

Cheers and regards.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Ah, Global West... I've had dealings with them on some past cars and was wholly unimpressed. And I've run against their "poster" cars quite successfully (read beaten them). I also drove a car that started out with one of their setups, and it didn't end with one of their setups, which actually was the first ESP 4th gen I ran. And I've never been caught win an illegal sub-frame, a couple GW cars have been @ Nationals..

The bar most certainly helps control camber be limiting the amount the car actually rolls. The less the car rolls, the less the upper control arms tilt outward which loses you dynamic camber. You won't see that just running the suspension through it's range of motion because the body doesn't roll when you do that, but it most certainly happens. But that's not the only reason I use a big front bar (I don't use a big rear bar). There are other reasons such as keeping the inside rear loaded more for longer times which helps traction out of corner as well as the tendency for these cars to lift the wheel under trail-braking, which does happen. Not a big deal on a 3rd gen without ABS, but can be a HUGE deal with the LS1 cars and contributes to the ice-mode ABS issues not unknown to many in a competition evironment.

Working on 4th gens since '87 would be a trick since the 3rd gen was in production through '93. And 5th gen? There is not a 5th gen f-body. 67-69 (1st), 70-81 (2nd), 82-92 (3rd) and finally 93-02 (4th).

And 720/320 is quite light is it? Those rates in front are 2.5 stock rates, and over 2.75 times the OEM rear rates. That is completely not what you can can "quite light". In front, I don't agree with it, but a 700 with a smaller bar than I run makes sense. But 320 on the rear... No way, and not without a PHB height on the ground thanks.

Regardless I'm off topic, which was about shocks. If you don't know what DA's adjust (and I don't mean "bump", but low-speed, high-speed, or both... and I do know for the record), and don't know what those thing do for your when you change them, you don't want DA's.

MHO.

YellowToy/A

iTrader: (1)

Sorry guys. If you want to win the nationals you must know alot more that I know. It is just not that hard to change a few clicks on the da take the car for a ride. If you done like it change it back. I know I did that. It worked well. No magic. Not that hard. Did not take that long. You can adjust them without taking the tire off. I know I did that. As far a wheels I have the GM ones that came with the 2002 collector edtion TA. This post started out with are DA good, I think so.

LS69TA

iTrader: (30)

I got a part # for some barely used Koni adjustable shocks and the guy said that he thought this was the number: 301265. Does this sound familar to anyone?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Are they 30-1265's or 30-1265 Sports, because they both exist, and are different valvings... they are also 3rd gen rear shocks, not 4th gen ones. I do from time to time sell those for use on a 4th gen (and currently have a set on my car). HOWEVER, you just can't slam them on and walk away.... it's part of a package with the fronts shocks, the springs in use and a number of other things.

Might they be well suited for you? Maybe, maybe not. I can't tell you because I don't have the information needed to make that judgement.

I understand the like of a cheap price, or a "deal". But is something really a deal if it isn't what you need or could best utilize? You can buy an Aveo for very little money, but if you need a truck, was that a great deal?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

And what did you do as far as messing with the rebound? That's the much more critical damper force. And if it's way off, etc., messing with the bump could make the car better because it's band-aiding the real problem.

Bottom line. DA's are good shocks, and they work well. They are also more expensive than SA's, aren't quite as reliable, don't allow you the option of a slightly lower ride height by way of the front spring perch like SA's do. Again, I own both. I've run both a lot, and I stay with SA's on my own car, which is used not only on the street but also wins a few little autocrosses around the US as well. We run on all different surfaces, smooth, bumpy, asphalt, concrete, clean, dusty, etc.... If the DA's were light years beyond the SA's, I'd use them. They aren't for 99% of the possible uses out there. If you open road-race, or open track the car, the usefullness of DA's goes up a bit, but not huge amounts at all.

If you want spend more money on something that is IMHO unecessary, then be my guess.