Bilstein suspension system???
12-22-2005, 11:33 AM
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Bilstein suspension system??? I've done the search on this site, but haven't seen any postings about the Bilstein BTS suspension system kit (part # BTS-7501) that includes shocks & lowering springs.
From Bilstein's website it appears to me that they have already done the shock revalve for this system.
Anybody use this kit? Comments?
Thanks,
DMark
From Bilstein's website it appears to me that they have already done the shock revalve for this system.
Anybody use this kit? Comments?
Thanks,
DMark
12-23-2005, 10:39 AM
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OK, I did another search and found the answers I needed - - - to include the standard reply from this forum's "Vendor-Expert" who bad-mouths everything unless its his re-valved Bilstein shocks. 
Let the flames begin...., I've been wearing Nomex for years!
DMark
Let the flames begin...., I've been wearing Nomex for years!
DMark
01-07-2006, 08:57 AM
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No flame from me on your observation.I have the BTS set up on my 01 z for over a year and am very pleased.As with any product purchase you as the consumer have to filter out the obsevations and opinions of others to come to your own conclusion.In the end if your happy thats all that really matters.
01-08-2006, 12:02 PM
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For what the BTS system is . It is pretty good . The Bilstein factory engineers here really go into depth when testing their complete systems. If your ever in Germany you should tour their facilities. I just don't like progressive rate springs that are used.
01-08-2006, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by roy
...The Bilstein factory engineers here really go into depth when testing their complete systems...
Thanks for the comment.
DMark
01-09-2006, 12:14 PM
#7
First off, I sell about 4 times as many Koni's are do my Revalves. And the notion that I rip anything but my Revalves is patentely untrue and unfair. More than a few folks here have other shocks bought from me, from HD's to DA Koni's. You are being more than shortsighted, and clearly do not understand why you might want Revalves.
I'm a Bilstein dealer. If you want BTS kit because it's what you want, vs. what you might be best served by, then fine. I will happily sell it to you. Unlike other companies which push only what they have, I try and carry a lot of product even if I don't use it much so you know that I'm not recommending only what I have.....
Simple facts, I know both the spring rate and the damping rate of the BTS kit, and the spring rate is well beyond what the shocks can handle for any kind of real performance use. Bilstein states in their own catalog that HD's are NOT SUITABLE for lowered cars, yet all they do for a BTS kit is to add some jounce bumpers, and they do not revalve the shocks. SHOCKS ARE SPRING DAMPERS, IF THE RATE JUMPS MUCH FROM WHAT THE SHOCKS ARE VALVED FOR YOU BEST YOUR BUTT THE DAMPING RATE MUST INCREASE TOO!!!
Bilstein is a good company.... which is why I use their products. I have their shocks on my truck. I had them on my '91 Camaro, which do not need revalving, even with lowered springs. Why? Simply put just because a shock says Bilstein doesn't mean it's perfect. We have GM cars, and most of us like them despite their issues. But a Corvette they aren't, but they also aren't Cavalier's. Both are Chevrolets, but not created equally.
I'm a Bilstein dealer. If you want BTS kit because it's what you want, vs. what you might be best served by, then fine. I will happily sell it to you. Unlike other companies which push only what they have, I try and carry a lot of product even if I don't use it much so you know that I'm not recommending only what I have.....
Simple facts, I know both the spring rate and the damping rate of the BTS kit, and the spring rate is well beyond what the shocks can handle for any kind of real performance use. Bilstein states in their own catalog that HD's are NOT SUITABLE for lowered cars, yet all they do for a BTS kit is to add some jounce bumpers, and they do not revalve the shocks. SHOCKS ARE SPRING DAMPERS, IF THE RATE JUMPS MUCH FROM WHAT THE SHOCKS ARE VALVED FOR YOU BEST YOUR BUTT THE DAMPING RATE MUST INCREASE TOO!!!
Bilstein is a good company.... which is why I use their products. I have their shocks on my truck. I had them on my '91 Camaro, which do not need revalving, even with lowered springs. Why? Simply put just because a shock says Bilstein doesn't mean it's perfect. We have GM cars, and most of us like them despite their issues. But a Corvette they aren't, but they also aren't Cavalier's. Both are Chevrolets, but not created equally.
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01-09-2006, 12:18 PM
#8
In case I didn't make it clear.... The bigger issue with the BTS kit is not the shocks alone, but the fact the springs are not what I feel should be in use. You team those high rate, and progressive rate springs with shocks that are NOT revalved, just have a bumper added and the damping is not what it should be.
Also, I've had at least 3 customers I can think of who had the BTS remove it for various different setups. And each had the same two complaints. First and foremost the damping wasn't up to par, and secondly the ride was too harsh. Both of which are indications of mismatched shock/spring setups.
Also, I've had at least 3 customers I can think of who had the BTS remove it for various different setups. And each had the same two complaints. First and foremost the damping wasn't up to par, and secondly the ride was too harsh. Both of which are indications of mismatched shock/spring setups.
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01-09-2006, 02:28 PM
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Well I've been looking into the BTS kit too for a while now. Now that I'm reading some of these repllies, I'm moving away from the BTS kit....
For the bit of research I've done, I had narrowed down the BTS kit as a decently priced suspension kit that does not have a 1"+ drop. Now I'm rethinking my choices
...what else is there out there that doesn't drop the car more than an inch?
For the bit of research I've done, I had narrowed down the BTS kit as a decently priced suspension kit that does not have a 1"+ drop. Now I'm rethinking my choices
...what else is there out there that doesn't drop the car more than an inch?
01-09-2006, 03:19 PM
#10
You can use Hotchkis springs, you can use SLP springs, you can use LT1 Pro-kits (about 1.25" admittedly), which are oh so different from LS1 Pro-kits it's amazing. And team any of those up with APPROPRIATE dampers (*not* HD's IMHO). There is a reason that HD's and springs cost about what the BTS kit does... because the BTS is just HD's and springs. It's marketing, and good marketing to sell a "kit" because it lulls most into a sense of security. But just like anything else, there are good kits and not-so-good kits.
You can use Koni's and the stock springs, which lowers the car about 3/4" and has become a very viable and popular alternative because it gives you killer shocks, adjustment that works, much better ride and HUGELY better handling and control. Sure, the shocks cost more, but often times you then SAVE the money you were going to spend on springs and an adjustable PHB and just put that toward the shocks. The end result is about the same cost, but with WAY better shocks which is the A-#1 thing the 4th gen needs improved.
You can use Koni's and the stock springs, which lowers the car about 3/4" and has become a very viable and popular alternative because it gives you killer shocks, adjustment that works, much better ride and HUGELY better handling and control. Sure, the shocks cost more, but often times you then SAVE the money you were going to spend on springs and an adjustable PHB and just put that toward the shocks. The end result is about the same cost, but with WAY better shocks which is the A-#1 thing the 4th gen needs improved.
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01-09-2006, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam Strano
You can use Hotchkis springs, you can use SLP springs, you can use LT1 Pro-kits (about 1.25" admittedly), which are oh so different from LS1 Pro-kits it's amazing. And team any of those up with APPROPRIATE dampers (*not* HD's IMHO). There is a reason that HD's and springs cost about what the BTS kit does... because the BTS is just HD's and springs. It's marketing, and good marketing to sell a "kit" because it lulls most into a sense of security. But just like anything else, there are good kits and not-so-good kits.
You can use Koni's and the stock springs, which lowers the car about 3/4" and has become a very viable and popular alternative because it gives you killer shocks, adjustment that works, much better ride and HUGELY better handling and control. Sure, the shocks cost more, but often times you then SAVE the money you were going to spend on springs and an adjustable PHB and just put that toward the shocks. The end result is about the same cost, but with WAY better shocks which is the A-#1 thing the 4th gen needs improved.
You can use Koni's and the stock springs, which lowers the car about 3/4" and has become a very viable and popular alternative because it gives you killer shocks, adjustment that works, much better ride and HUGELY better handling and control. Sure, the shocks cost more, but often times you then SAVE the money you were going to spend on springs and an adjustable PHB and just put that toward the shocks. The end result is about the same cost, but with WAY better shocks which is the A-#1 thing the 4th gen needs improved.
What do you mean using the Koni's and the stock springs will lower the car 3/4"? I thought only the springs determine ride height?
01-09-2006, 05:43 PM
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Koni SA's have two spring perches so you can lower the front about 3/4" if you want to, it's only the front though, not the rear. You can remove the spring cup from the rear and replace it with some heater hose and get about 1/2"- 5/8" drop from that.
01-09-2006, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyR
Koni SA's have two spring perches so you can lower the front about 3/4" if you want to, it's only the front though, not the rear. You can remove the spring cup from the rear and replace it with some heater hose and get about 1/2"- 5/8" drop from that.
01-10-2006, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyR
Koni SA's have two spring perches so you can lower the front about 3/4" if you want to, it's only the front though, not the rear. You can remove the spring cup from the rear and replace it with some heater hose and get about 1/2"- 5/8" drop from that.
Who sells Koni SA's? I'm having trouble finding them...
01-10-2006, 01:43 PM
#15
I do.. all the time. Just call me, I'll give you pricing and answer any questions you might have (I assume some). We also offer two different sets of Koni SA's. One is less costly but more involved to adjust, the other is slightly more but a lot easier to adjust and a lot more fine-tunable as well.
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01-12-2006, 03:38 PM
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Sam, what is your opinion of the SLP Bilstein/Eibach combo for $650?
Like poweredbyv8, I am looking for around a 1" drop with mild improvements in handling. My car will not see a track, just fast exit ramps and twisty roads...
Thanks
Like poweredbyv8, I am looking for around a 1" drop with mild improvements in handling. My car will not see a track, just fast exit ramps and twisty roads...
Thanks
01-12-2006, 04:09 PM
#17
I'm an SLP dealer, I want to note that so you know that my opinion is not driven by my ability to get the product, that is not a problem
SLP's kit (which is Level 1) is pretty good. However, I would not ever chose to use first. It doesn't handle badly, but not near as well as a car with stock springs an Koni's. It really doesn't lower the much (about the same as Koni's and stock springs can). You don't have adjustable shocks, so you have no recourse should you want to change something. And while the shocks & springs are slightly less, SLP also charges a pretty good amount of freight (whether you buy direct or I drop-ship) which just adds to the bottom line, which is the important part.
The SLP shocks are a compromise. Fronts are stiffer on rebound (good), but softer on compression (bad because you haven't lightened you unsprung weight). The rear shocks are not at all different than HD's, which ain't the best idea. Their springs really don't lower the car, and while a bit stiffer, the spring rate of the the car is not the problem. Our cars feel spongy because the damping sucks, not because the spring rate is too low. There are times and reasons to have more rate, what you describe is not one of them IMHO.
If you don't want to opt for Koni's, that's fine. However, you must realize that any other shock requires alternate springs for the lowering. That's $200+ dollars for anything decent (yes, I know there are cheaper spring, I just don't think they very good). Add that to the shocks you really should have (at least Revalves) and your bottom line is near Koni's. But, you still should have an adjustable PHB because any spring that lowers the rear much more than 1/2" is going to need the axle re-centered. Koni front/spring isolator rear is about 3/4" front, 1/2" rear.
There is much more I could add, including other options... I'd just be typing forever, and I can't do that. Plus, to be honest it's all too common now that folks, well.... swipe my info and buy other places. So I'm just a little more cautious about what anyone not willing to call me can learn from the net.....
But, of course anyone should feel 100% welcome to call me. I'll fill your head with more info than you probably want. 
SLP's kit (which is Level 1) is pretty good. However, I would not ever chose to use first. It doesn't handle badly, but not near as well as a car with stock springs an Koni's. It really doesn't lower the much (about the same as Koni's and stock springs can). You don't have adjustable shocks, so you have no recourse should you want to change something. And while the shocks & springs are slightly less, SLP also charges a pretty good amount of freight (whether you buy direct or I drop-ship) which just adds to the bottom line, which is the important part.
The SLP shocks are a compromise. Fronts are stiffer on rebound (good), but softer on compression (bad because you haven't lightened you unsprung weight). The rear shocks are not at all different than HD's, which ain't the best idea. Their springs really don't lower the car, and while a bit stiffer, the spring rate of the the car is not the problem. Our cars feel spongy because the damping sucks, not because the spring rate is too low. There are times and reasons to have more rate, what you describe is not one of them IMHO.
If you don't want to opt for Koni's, that's fine. However, you must realize that any other shock requires alternate springs for the lowering. That's $200+ dollars for anything decent (yes, I know there are cheaper spring, I just don't think they very good). Add that to the shocks you really should have (at least Revalves) and your bottom line is near Koni's. But, you still should have an adjustable PHB because any spring that lowers the rear much more than 1/2" is going to need the axle re-centered. Koni front/spring isolator rear is about 3/4" front, 1/2" rear.
There is much more I could add, including other options... I'd just be typing forever, and I can't do that. Plus, to be honest it's all too common now that folks, well.... swipe my info and buy other places. So I'm just a little more cautious about what anyone not willing to call me can learn from the net.....
But, of course anyone should feel 100% welcome to call me. I'll fill your head with more info than you probably want.
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01-13-2006, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam Strano
.... I'm a Bilstein dealer.... Bilstein is a good company.... which is why I use their products....
Does your Revalve of the HD shock void the Bilstein warranty?
DMark
01-13-2006, 11:42 AM
#19
It does. But we've NEVER, ever broken one or even had them get "soft". Ask around, you won't find anyone who's had any trouble. And the rear shocks retain their warranty as they are off the shelf alternative valving (already revalved basically).
So the choices are: HD's not meant for the rate, but with a warranty which you'll use when they become unable to cope with the extra rate. Revalves which are Bilstein's and I have revalved by Bilstein's shop in San Diego, without warranty, but with the spring rate/use considered and the valving done to make sure it damps the springs. Or step up to a Koni shock which has the damping and range built in (no revalve needed), and also has a lifetime warranty... as well as being adjustable.
So the choices are: HD's not meant for the rate, but with a warranty which you'll use when they become unable to cope with the extra rate. Revalves which are Bilstein's and I have revalved by Bilstein's shop in San Diego, without warranty, but with the spring rate/use considered and the valving done to make sure it damps the springs. Or step up to a Koni shock which has the damping and range built in (no revalve needed), and also has a lifetime warranty... as well as being adjustable.
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01-15-2006, 09:48 AM
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FWIW, I have a set of Bilstiens that were Strano-tuned and are very good performers. I would definitely consider what the man says... Of course everybody told me that my spring/shock combo wouldn't work, but I am happy with it for what I use the car for.