trackbird

iTrader: (4)

The Bob Bishop brackets failed at just under 23,000 lbs of load (one bracket, not a pair). What actually failed was the bolts that hold the hub on, it actually twisted the ARP fasteners and once they were sufficiently damaged, the bracket started to crack (from the bolt bending in the hole and splitting it).

Teutonic Speedracer

iTrader: (20)

I was one of those that experienced pad taper under track conditions. I have since taken my steel Baer brackets off and replaced them with the aluminum "Bishop"/Trackbrackets which have been proven by many and I can visually tell (I'm a mechanical engineer) are a much stronger/robust design than the Baer's.

Rick99TAWS6

iTrader: (4)

I received the brackets and they look to be of very good quality, plate is 3/8" so it sounds as if it will be plenty strong.

Tobin indicated that he had done no lab testing on these, but that he figured the bolts would also be the first to fail with these brackets also. He also said he started with a clean design with these and did not copy the Baer's.

I always figured a good quality steel would be stronger than aluminum....

Will be putting these on next weekend(if the weather stays decent - temperature wise), will post back after install with further impressions

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

If he said that, I hope they come with a good grade bolt.

GR33N GoblinM6

iTrader: (14)

hey if you dont mind.. take some good pics of the brackets for us.. include a side view so we can see the thickness. thanks.


im still waiting on replies from the other companies i emailed.. ive emailed all of them 2 times now, still no responses. but i tihnk im going to go ahead and order them reguardless of what the other companies use. i would rather trust this steel than the other alumimum ones, i dont see why there is such a big cost difference either. just have to usesome good strong hardware.

Frosty

iTrader: (17)

Thanks for the update, I'll probably order them when I need new front brakes.

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

The cost difference is to pay for the lab testing and R&D work that went into making them.

Rick99TAWS6

iTrader: (4)

Bolts are Class 10.9, M10-1 x 55mm hex head cap screws for mounting bracket to spindle and M14-2 x 70mm HHCS for mounting caliper abutments to the bracket.

Pic is attached...............

GR33N GoblinM6

iTrader: (14)

awesome.. thanks Rick

93formto98T/A

iTrader: (28)

That's a nice sturdy looking bracket. To those such as myself who are mainly wanting a big brake upgrade for appearance and very limited track use they should do just fine.

jargan04

iTrader: (1)

I still dont trust them. I will stay with my LG brackets.

FAST LS1

iTrader: (2)

I have the same or very similar brackets since I have the Baer brake kit. They are 3/8" thick steel plate, and I could see how they could "flex" dimensionally in a race application causing pad taper. Being an engineer also I don't feel there is any need to fear these brackets will "fail". They may flex more than the thicker Al barckets in a race application, but they'll be fine for most people.
The bracket looks like it could be slightly modified with just a gusset strip of steel welded in along the length to avoid any flexing. I thought about taking mine to work to have this done, but I don't race my car every weekend on slicks, so I'm not concerned.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Trackbrackets sends ARP hardware for the spindle (10mm) bolts. They are far more expensive than hardware grade stuff (but it's worth it). And, the trackbrackets cost more (just the wholesale cost from the machine shop for the actual brackets alone) than that whole kit does retail.

The proper aluminum alloy is expensive as is quality machine work.

GR33N GoblinM6

iTrader: (14)

i just got a response back from UMI performance. here is the response:

"Hello,

The brackets are CNC Machined from a 2" x 8" block on aluminum, the grade is
2024. The finished thickness of the mounting plate is 0.600". The complete kit
is supplied with metric 10.9 grade bolts. If you visit the link below there is
some more information on the manufactring process as well as the installation.
This product was machined from aluminum to reduce front end weight, a set of
brackets only weigh in at 3lbs.

http://www.umiperformance.com/c5conv.aspx

If I can help anymore please ask. Thank you!

UMI Performance Inc."

for those of you who dont know the grading scales of aluminum, 2024 is a pretty soft type of Aluminum. now there are different grades of 2024. He doesnt state what type it is, but being that the 2024 T3(T3 being a lot stronger than regular 2024 0) is most commonly used and is readily available. im going to use that for the compairability (i dont think anyone in their right mind would use plain old 2024 "0" for this)

2024 is commonly used for :Aircraft fittings, gears and shafts, bolts, clock parts, computer parts, couplings, fuse parts, hydraulic valve bodies, missile parts, munitions, nuts, pistons, rectifier parts, worm gears, fastening devices, veterinary and orthopedic equipment.

A572 steel is commonly used for : structural internal frames, truck frames, rail cars, and components.

2024 T3 has a 55ksi MAX tensile strength,
shear MAX strength of only 41ksi,
AND, a Fatiuge strength of just only 20ksi
with a maxium elongation of 18% per 2in and a minimum of 11%

so.. bracket for bracket.. the steel is structurally stronger, costs half as much, but weighs .5lbs more(per bracket), than the aluminum.

use your own opinions and descression on what to buy, im not here to prove or disprove why you should or should not use a product, i merely posted my findings from my own research, and advice from my father, a mechanical aircraft engineer and Senior Chief Quality Control Inspector and Senior Source Inspector of 36 years

Rick99TAWS6

iTrader: (4)

Tobin indicated to me that he chose the steel over aluminum due to concerns with fatigue..................

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Trackbrackets are 6061-T6511 (heat treated and resized which is more expensive, but handles fatigue and thermal cycles very well). And, they were tested under track conditions to document real temps on a real car on a real track with an experienced race driver (I think it was one of the T2 guys, but I forget who Bob had doing the testing). The maximum temps were documented on the various sections of the bracket and the aluminum alloy was chosen with assistance from the engineers at Kaiser aluminum based on this information (temperature, loading, stress, etc).

Bob used to use steel for his brackets, he switched to aluminum due to better rigidity and lighter weight and those were renamed trackbrackets when he sold the design (he is no longer affiliated with this product).

v8pwr

iTrader: (19)

Good read , almost as informative as the thread involving BB . Very pleased to see that much R&D go into a product instead of "consumer development" . I would like to know more about Teutonic Speedracer's setup as in vehicle weight , pad compound , rotor , tire size and compound . I don't think I'll ever have a dedicated track car but I would like track capable brakes with a more street oriented pad , and if I do decide to spend more time @ rr events I can just do a little upgrade . What would be the ideal rotor to use with this setup ? Are there any 2pc rotors available ? What brake lines are used ? Thanks for any info .

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Consumer development is bad, at least when it comes to brakes.

Street oriented pads.... I'd look at the Hawk HPS, they are reasonably quiet, don't dust excessively and stop far better than a stock pad ever will. There are other choices as well, Porterfield makes the R4S (S=Street) which is an adaptation of their track pads. I've not personally used those, but they have been recommended to me by sources that I trust. However, I can't say how much noise or dust they make, so buyer beware. Carbotech has some offerings as well, though they are mostly geared towards track use and I'm not sure they will recommend their axxis pads for a car as heavy as ours. There are others, but those are some of the highlights.

The standard C5 rotors from GM (for about $19 each) actually work great for track use and street use. If you beat on any rotor hard enough, you can crack it, but the GM rotors seem to hold up as well as any and better than some and for $19 each, you can afford to have spares (they seem much better than the stock F-body rotors which have known issues with warping).

2 piece rotors could be custom made by coleman racing and others. I can't remember seeing any off of the top of my head, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist. Someone may already be making them.

Brake lines. You can use a stock Corvette brake line or upgrade to a braided line for a C5 if you wish. I'd prefer to see you with a "DOT legal" braided line if you plan to go that way. The "DOT legal" version will have a rubber covering over the braid to keep dirt from grinding between the braid and the teflon liner and potentially causing a ruptured brake line (not a good thing). I believe the Goodrich brand lines are DOT legal and have the proper rubber covering.