Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

About 100 times better, but it's less from the lower perch (which does lower the center of gravity and offer more negative camber) than it is from just a way better damper. The car is better controlled, goes where pointed, generates roll more slowly, changes direction more quickly, gets rid of the float, but acutally sucks up the sharp impacts light-years better.

skippytheloon

iTrader: (14)

May Spin

He's not exagerating either. For a car that see's 99% of it's life on the street (let's face it, thats most of us here), stock spring rates, Koni's on the lower perch a good alignment with Sam's 35/22mm swaybar combo will give you a very comfortable, confident inspiring car which does drive and handle light-years better.

YellowToy/A

iTrader: (1)

Hey Sam

I should sell the ground control setup. I had fun putting it on. I did 3 or 4 ride height changes. I had it to low. Then i changed and it was to high. Then I got it right where i wanted. They only cost 130.00 $ more then a fixed set up. If you are going to buy Konis for 700.00$ then 130 more for being able to adjust ride height is a small price to pay. Plus you get to pick the spring rate.

How do u use the lower perch and not need more spring rate to keep the car from hitting the ground??? The car is lower and should need more rate to keep it off the ground.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Not everyone wants the hassle involved with coil-overs to start with. Secondly, not everyonew wants or needs the higher spring rates. Third, more spring rate isn't needed. The Koni uses a very long and soft bump rubber (not really a bumpstop because it adds rate through a long range and builds in a subtle way, but does not return energy like a progressive spring).

Also, the amount of lowering, is about 1/2" of shock travel due to motion ratios... not enough to really change things. Plus stock springs have a lot of preload which makes them stiffer than a spring without preload like a coil-over spring. Notice you have to compress stock springs 4" or more to keep from killing yourself when changing them.

Facts are simple. Unless you are racing the car where exact spring rates and corner weighting is necessary, or you are **** about tenth's on inches, coil-overs are overkill. Nice, but it's like having a .600 lift cam in your commuter car.

And you did 3 or 4 height changes... did you do 3 or 4 alignments? Because that changes with every change in height.

May Spin

Sam, I will agree with you that coil overs tend to be overkill for street car, the stock spring rates are great but can only perform with good dampers. However, shouldn't coil-overs be advised if wanting 315's out back? You know the hassel of getting them to fit, you've got them on all four corners. For thoses wanting a slight drop, yes Koni's can do that, but coil-overs would give you that perfect drop while dealing with those 315's. And besides a higher spring rate (although not my preference) may be required if a big bar is not used. Thoughts?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

The springs have nothing to do with fitting 315's on the back.. at all.

They don't magically give you bigger fenders. They don't roll the fender lips. The ultimate compression travel is the same as ANY rear spring setup will let the car get down to the bumpstops and I don't care what spring rate you have.

Tires and wheels are fitment issues that have NOTHING to do with the suspension.

May Spin

Thanks Sam, still a little confused. To clarify if I have 11" rims with 315's on a stock height rear and am lucky enough to have zero fitment issues, one could add say... sportlines and as long as the rear stayed centered with a PHB would still have zero fitment issues?

Scott.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Sure, that can happen. I know a number of folks who's rim offset and actually width of the tire (the real width, not the generic 315) is such that they don't rub. Again, it's a matter of the fitment.

YellowToy/A

iTrader: (1)

Sam

I think that any one who can put on lowering springs should at least know about the ground control setup. It is not that much harder to put on and you can adjust it. When I was looking, all the lowering springs were to low for what i wanted. Plus I want a constant rate spring. And for 360.00 they are a great deal. Overkill maybe. But most of the things i do to my car are.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Good lord... I'm not going to have the conversation any longer. I think most folks are aware of coil-overs. If they are not by way of the net, they are made aware of them when we speak on the phone if there is *ANY* reason what-so-ever them might need them. That's my job, to inform folks of what best suits their needs. That's what I'm trying to do. This thread is not about coil-overs.

What really rubbed me wrong is the way you espouse you opinion. You are 100% entitled to it. But you say things like I told you to sell your kit. I did not. You say how great it is, but you have no ability to compare to other setups. You want a constant rate spring (which is not a bad thing), but that's MY INFORMATION. Quite frankly, your whole setup is a setup I sold a lot of 3 and 4 years ago for street use, right down to the spring rates. Of course, you or someone else took the information I worked hard for and bought elsewhere.

I'm not going any further with you. No matter what I've said, you have twisted it or taken it completely out of context. I have better things to do with my time, like answer basic questions online and most importantly to talk to customers on the phone who want the skinny right from my mouth. No way to misconstrude information and all the details are covered.

You've made you decision, and I'm glad you like it. The folks have both opinions. They can make up their own minds.

YellowToy/A

iTrader: (1)

Sam

You think this board is a place for you, and only you to give your opinion. Yours may be better than most but still an opinion. You try to sell everyone who comes here your product. You have made trackbird stay away. Every one should be able to post what they want. BE NICE. I THINK EVERY THING I HAVE POSTED IS CORRECT. This is not your board. BE NICE

MosesMcgregor

iTrader: (16)

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

you are completely entitled to you opinion... you've stated it, and I've stated mine. Nowhere have I said you were wrong, only that you don't know of the other options. As such you aren't in a position to compare one thing to another. I haven't said anything you stated was incorrect. Again, you are twisting things around... simply that you do not know all the reasons why I might recommend something. That's nothing personal, nobody can know all the details by e-mail, which is why I TALK to my customers in person before I recommend anything.

And for the record, I haven't chased trackbird away. I know Kevin, and FWIW advertise on his frrax.com board as well. Some find it troubling that I don't sit back and take a bunch of crap. I'm sorry for that, but I feel that folks should know their options if they are to buy product wisely.

You can and have posted what you want. Shouldn't get upset at me for calling you on something. Your opinion is your opinion, that doesn't make if fact (and the same goes for me). But I try and make sure I explain my reasoning completely, and offer my experience and my time for anyone to call and ask if they have further questions. They can then judge for themselves.

Fair enough? Coil-overs are great, but not for everyone. I recommend them, I don't recommend them. Depends on the situation, where you pop into all kinds of threads recommending them, including this one where the person was asking about Koni's and stock springs.... And you fail to mention how coil-overs on a Koni void the warranty... or didn't you know that?

YellowToy/A

iTrader: (1)

Sam you have jumped on me a few times. All i try to do is let people know there is an option. I think that the ground control set up is just what many people need, but do not think about. If i get anyone to think about them that is what i want to do. As far as the stock springs with konis. It is alot of work to put shocks in the front of an f-body. I think most people wound want to put spings on at the same time as shocks, if they ever want to change them.

I did not know that coil-overs voided koni warranty. I have talked to there tech sevice a few times and looked at there web page and never heard that. I have heard that if you go to low with your set up that could void the warranty, but you told me that was not the case. As a dealer u would know. Can u please explan what will and will not void the warranty.

Thank You for the nice reply.

Tobynine9

iTrader: (17)

Everytime I read about suspension setups on this forum I have to change my mind about what I want to do!

Y'all are frustrating.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Running coil-overs on a Koni involves modifying the shock. You cannot run a full-length dust boot, you have to remove or modify the adjustment had so you can install the threaded sleeve, and because you can drop the car to the ground you can bottom out the shock (and this does happen). Koni cannot, and will not be responsible for shocks that have been modified, and yes when folks do stupid things the do break shocks (and they'll break any shock). And they can easily tell if you had coil-overs by the sleeve marks on the body, internal damage should you not run enough spring rate to support the car/lowered to far....

Bilstein just voided a warranty on some Mustang Struts this week. Said they were abused because the top of the damper was bulged... Only happens when the shock bottoms out.... and that car did not have Coil-overs. Just a lack of bumpstops and improper springs....

However this was my original point. You didn't know that you run the risk of having a non-warrantable shock. You didn't tell anyone what's involved in installing those on a Koni (special tool, or grinding is needed in most cases). I told you going too low would void the warranty... So we have talked? Yet again, it seems you took my information and gave me nothing in return.

Warranties can be voided for any "Abuse". There is no hard and fast rule on it. There are general rules, but I don't have the time to go over them here....

YellowToy/A

iTrader: (1)

Hi Sam

I have chatted with u more than most people I chat with here.

I agree that modifying or abused shocks will void the warranty. I was told by Koni that running without the boot was OK. I did not modify my shocks to put them on. I made a tool that worked well to take the nut off. What I do not agree on is that ground control coil-overs will void the warranty by there use. If the setup is bad and something is broken u own it. That is the way it all ways is.

Sam the difference between you and I is, I never expect to get anything from the people I try to help here. You state "So we have talked? Yet again, it seems you took my information and gave me nothing in return." What do u want in return???? There are many people that make a living setting up cars. They work in NASCAR and other places. I am not sure that in a public forum what u want in return. I have learned a lot here from u and many other. I am also sure that some have learned from me.

damon_Z

Sorry to interrupt the argument, but Sam, I just have a question. If I use the stock springs and put it on the Koni SA's lower spring perch, then will I need to get an alignment? Thanks in advance for the info.

josh99ta

iTrader: (1)

Yes, you will absolutely need an alignment. Anytime you make ride height changes you need an alignment.

I talked with Sam as well as did alot of research and settled on the Stock Springs + Koni SA setup, lower perch with rear isolator removed. I had a friend over with the Hotchkis spring setup and my car was maybe 1/4" higher in the front and maybe 1/2" or slightly more higher than the rear, and many people consider the Hotchkis springs to be the perfect ride height. I am still thinking about modifying my rear springs by cutting off a half coil or so to drop the rear another 1/4" but after that the car should sit PERFECT if you ask me.

I wanted to keep stock springs for a better ride and to still maintain a bit of softness for the drag racing I do, but I wanted to be able to dial up the shock for better handling as well. My car rides MUCH better than stock, handles MUCH better than stock, and looks like it should have when it was built. Not too low, not too high. I do have true duals as well and I have plenty of clearance (something I didn't have at all when I had a Pro Kit on the car with the duals).

Pics: Stock Springs, Koni SAs on lower perch, rear isolator removed