Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Holy out of context Batman!

Do you need 500 HP if 400 gets you in trouble all the time? Do you need 20 more bucks if you have a million? Do you need a 3000 watt stereo if you never turn it up more than 10%?

This is about what are "MUST HAVE" parts. And SFC's are not, in any way shape of form "MUST HAVE". Cars handle just fine without them. I don't have them on my car (rules), but even if I could run them they won't make it faster. Cars are out that have so many miles on them it's like a trip to the Moon (and on the way back!), and they aren't falling apart..

They aren't bad. I never said they were bad. They have their place. They are NOT must have's.

jRaskell

iTrader: (1)

Nobody in this thread has said having a stiff chassis is bad. In fact, it's been said several times that's there's nothing bad about it.

What we are saying, is that there are better ways to improve the handling of your car coming from a completely stock setup.

FACT: The stock decarbon shocks on fourth gen F-bodies are garbage for anything but drag racing.

Yes, that's a fact. And it's not exaggerated either. About the only thing they're good for is drag racing, because they've got poor damping characteristics and provide little resistance to weight transfer. As a result, they also provide little resistance to any sort of suspension action. They make the car feel like a wallowing pig just kind of floating down the road. Even for a street car, properly damped aftermarket shocks actually improve the ride quality as well as the handling.

Unless you have one of the optional Bilstein or Koni shock packages from the factory on your car, the single biggest improvement to overall handling you can get for your ride is a good set of aftermarket shocks. Bilstein HDs if you plan on sticking with the stock springs, revalved Bilsteins or Koni's if you're planning on building a more aggressive ride OR want the best you can get while retaining the stock springs. There's a hundred times more slop in those stock decarbon pogo sticks than any chassis flex you're going to experience with an otherwise stock suspension, and I'm still not exaggerating.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

P/H rod and LCA's with HD Bilstein's totally took care of my wheel hop. STB completely eliminated the boat-roll effect while cornering and taking sharp curves/interstate ramps. SFC's somewhat cured the squeaks, creeks, and rattles but really firmed up the launches on the street with MT ET Street drag radials.

Just speaking from personal experience, I'd first do shocks and STB for the everyday street value ... followed by SFC's p/h rod, then LCA's ... my .02 worth.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Your car must've a real POS for those parts to have cured all that

Hobb3s

iTrader: (23)

This has been a very insteresting read. I'm thinking twice about even installing the SFC's that I have now as the money could be spent way better elsewhere

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

What can I say? It was a stock Trans Am with 6,000 garage-kept miles ... never driven in the rain. That's all chnaged now ..

Redy2Go WS6

Yo, i like this thread alot! good stuff.. im mainly a street driver, i guess you could break it down to: 60% street, 30% autoX, and less than 10% drag .... and umm, it sucks that i was talked into the SFCs, but hence reading all of this thread, i dont want to go there. haha

so how about brakes? do they fair as a 'must have'? if so, and which brand would you recommend (like StopTechs, or would if budget minded is in affect, would a wilwood kit be a good enhancement?)

hate to say it but my suspension is close to stock, with the exception of ordering Eibach sportlines yesterday, and having hawk pads, and a hotchkis STB, and SFCs.

from reading the thread my next mod should be shocks (then perhaps brakes maybe), correct? do i need to consider custom valving for those sportlines too? lead me to the right path.. Thanks guys

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Glad you've looked at this thread objectively rather than personally. I do have some things I'd like to bring to your attention though, and it's probably not going to be taken well, but it's my observation.

AFA the brakes are concerned for what you're doing, improved brake pads (what you've got already), periodic brake fluid flush with improved brake fluid, quality blank replacement rotors, and maybe stainless steel brake lines. For your situation, a big brake kit offers less returns for the bucks on street and/or AX.

AFA the suspension being close to stock, it's not really down to the parts that are engineered, whether it's aftermarket or OEM. One thing I will suggest is if you can, see if you can exchange the sportlines for a pro-kit. Yeah you'll like the look, but will hate the ride and performance quality much more and practically no shock valving will cure the problems of the sportline's low ride height and soft spring rate. I say if it's performance to choose from in an aftermarket replacement spring, go for an Eibach pro-kit or Hotchkis, but if it were up to me for performance, I'd stick with the stock springs with Koni SA's all around, then the heater hose mod for the rear. This won't lower that much, but will indeed lower it just enough. If you shall choose the pro-kit or the hotchkis, or any decent set of lowering springs, you'll still need to opt for either Bilstein revalves or Koni SA's, or a combination thereof.

One more thing I'd like to mention would be that even though your wheels look great, it's been known to many F-body AXer's and RRer's that anywheel that had a diameter higher than 17" will frustrate performance on the rear wheels. Like it or not, it's most likely due to our car's solid rear axle with it's inability not to articulate each side independently (at least nowhere near one of an IRS), plus it's great unsprung weight. Just wanted to inform everybody else of that since you also list the 17x9 SS wheels. I personally experienced that, and took a great loss on my used 18" rims that I replaced my 16" wheels with (darn tire store salesman).

May Spin

It kind of sucks that you were talked into Sportlines.... I think they have terrible spring rates for your 60% street use let alone the 30 used on the autoX course. But to keep this on topic, a "must-have" for you is correctly valved shocks... Sam Strano can help you with revalved HD's or Koni's.

Scott.

Redy2Go WS6

wow, okay thanks guys, i'll call the local shop here tomorrow and see if i can change the order to pro-kit instead.. i know i dont want a softer spring, thats for sure! i ordered those because i wanted a low stance for car shows too, but i think functionality is more important, so i'll try to change them out with a pro kit

yeop, those SS rims are used for track wheels. i later found out that they were a neccessity to have, so i bought some, especially for less rotated mass and braking distance.

May Spin

For a car that spends it's life on the street this is good, very good advice. The stock spring rates do a VERY good job of controlling the cars weight if controlled with a decent damper. Some might need more roll control, but for me I'd rather keep the comfort of the stock springs and use a big swaybar up front for that added control. I wouldn't consider lowering springs a "must-have".

illy5603

Thanks everyone for an awesome thread!!! I am 100% street and have no pretention of being a racer, no drag, no Auto-X. MAYBE a High Performance Driving Event thrown in for fun but nothing competitive. With that said, I bought some lowering springs (BMR) and have had them in my garage for some time. I was going to do what I did with my last Camaro and get the Bilstein HD's and put the two together, along with a STB and SFC's. Now I am saving some coin for the Strano Bilsteins, and maybe some Poly End Links but don't plan on getting SFC's or a STB. Still up in the air about sway bar upgrades, maybe 1LE or just don't bother? The car is a 2001 SS with T-Tops.

Redy2Go WS6

i feel better now, today i called the local shop here and got my order switched, i now have the pro-kit coming in, should be here friday or monday. thanks guys

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

Just got my 12-bolt installed and a BMR adjustable torque arm. It seems the torque arm compliments the rearend very well, so, I'd have to say a good torque arm bolted directly to the rear is definitely a must-have if you have a 12-bolt with torque arm provision.

jRaskell

iTrader: (1)

A 12-bolt would indicate that you plan on doing some serious drag racing, with serious tires. In that case, torque arm, panhard bar, and LCAs really become more of a necessity because the stock components simply aren't up to the task of handling the kind of forces drag tires will exert on the rear end. Forces you just aren't going to see on even the best street tires.

Don't get me wrong, I'm agreeing with everything you said. Just trying to make it clear that, if you're sticking with stock rear-end and street tires, items like a torque arm, panhard bar, and LCAs aren't must haves. They can still help improve things, but definitely not on the top of the list.

Ace$nyper

iTrader: (8)

This is an awesome thread I'm glad I wondered on to it! We really are lucky to have so many good members willing to share info and explain things for us.

Now I see and understand how important shocks are *first mod to my autoX car*

but now say you are in my boat, you have a little money to play with are just getting used to the car and feel its ok for what it is but everything stock is healty and your on a low budget.

PHB seems to be a smart mod as sways alter steering feel and i'm not 100% what I want yet. lowering with just springs is out because I don't want to kill my shocks and my shocks are healthy and I don't have the money for a good upgrade set now.

Am I on the right path or should I just save up?

On a daily driver that will see an autoX or drag here or there.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

Wtih not much more than stock power ... back when, I had two 'body flex wrinkles appear on my right rear quarter panel and it seems to be attributed to not having Sub-Frame connectors. I would do those first, but, P/H rod is a good start, as well. If you have wheel hop, then, LCA's might keep you from breaking your 10-bolt, since you already have good shocks ... IMHO.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

I'm assuming from what you typed Ace that everything on your vehicle is stock right now, including shocks. If you are riding on stock decarbons, then you ought to look into new shocks, and since you are considering AX, you should consider Koni SA's. Not trying to upsell you, however it's a good shocks for daily driver, AX, and some drag racing. Stock Decarbons have really poor valving to begin with.

Your panhard rod may not be as off as some others, however once you lower, then you'll really know if the "tolerance lottery" has got the best of your PHB or not. You can't lose by buying a PHB this early in the upgrade game, however it doesn't quite yield an effective difference for what it does. It's a necessary part, but just doesn't have as great of a "feel" of improvement as shocks and/or swaybars have.

My 2 cents would be just to keep saving money and perform more research on the parts for improving handling. The sticky is pretty much spot on. If you really want to get a good perception of how well your vehicle handles on the stock suspension (or how horrible it does), try to find an AX club somewhere and possibly a licenced instructor with good experience.

davered00ss

iTrader: (4)

Subframe connectors

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

unecessary for a daily driver.