wrench

I'm looking at the slp strut tower brace, any feed back on this product. Tried search but no definate answer. Is the tower brace just BLING or can you really fell the difference in handling. I plan to autocross and looking for every edge in handling, I already have Koni SA and front sway bars already. -Thanks

Redneck Z

iTrader: (3)

I like the feel of my car after doing a STB. It really stiffened things up. As far as performance gains though, I think it's been proven to not really do much.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Then you will want every ounce you can get off the nose of the car.

NexGen

iTrader: (2)

I have one? Wanna buy it? Hit me up.

MM98

iTrader: (13)

I'd look into a different stb other than SLP's... Their's sits lower & makes it a p.i.t.a to get the oil cap off... Look into BMR or anyone that sits higher.

Mike

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

I have a tubular BMR and it felt really firm with my HD Bilsteins up front. Personally, I feel that the most important thing to help with the rowboat effect when cornering or taking a sharp curve is the front suspension because it is throwing the full weight of the car into one front corner. No matter what research has been done, it did a lot for my car ... just my .02 cents.

Krab

iTrader: (28)

I used to have a STB on my car for about 2 years, then I took it off to see if I could actually feel the difference. After taking a few hard curves and driving onto uneven roads, I can honestly say I didn't feel a difference with it on or off. After this "test", I decided to leave it off and sell it. I shaved ~5lbs off the nose of my car.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

I'll try it with mine today and will post back up. Since it bolts directly to the shock tower struts, I would think it could only help with 3,500+ lbs pushing into one front corner of a curve when you roll into it at 60-70 mph.

Do a search and see what the national champion Sam Strano and other experienced Road Racers have to say about STB's on our F-Body's. A few are Mitchntx, Sam Strano, Cal, NataSS ... and they post frequently with good, documented information.

H8 LUZN

I can almost garuantee that you will NOT feel a differnce. The deflection of the strut towers are minimal and hence acting like a really stiff spring.

has anyone measured the deflection under dyanmic conditions without an STB? Or at least put strain gauges on a strut tower brace to measure the stress and strain seen in the STB?

Will a STB help? i dont know untill i see the results from the testing mentioned above. But i highly doubt it will have a Seat of the Pants feeling, if you think so, your kidding yourself.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

agreed

Frosty

iTrader: (17)

I think I felt a slight difference. I'm not 100% sure though. I got my Spohn at a decent price so I figured why not. I might pull it and sell it though.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Time for me to appear out from a haitus. AFA the strain guages, I'm not to sure what another vendor (non-sponsor) has used, but I have used foil type strain guages in 90* rosette patterns linked to full-bridge circuits mounted at several locations throughout the front end, central chassis area including the floorpan, and the rear end including quarter panels. Several trials with and without the STB in an attempt to eliminate most test errors were performed(though there could still be some there). There was NO imbalance differences with or without the STB at the tower mounting points where practically all aftermarket STB's mount (and at the same time with the OEM configured chassis floorpan area). This was performed on an AX course with OE sway bars, OE springs and shocks that are properly dampened to be used with the stock springs (hence our test Bilstein HD's). Even running the test with the worn decarbons reinstalled yielded the same results for the shock towers and the central cargo area where the floor pan is present. There are many other tests and results which I don't desire to detail as of the moment. This was performed on not one, but three different 4th Gen f-bodies, including the one on my webshots page.

I greatly simplified this in order not to taint my friend's trials in order for him to complete his ME thesis.

H8 LUZN

Sounds good, I love to see it when people actually do things the right way. I always when people say "i think it feels better". The worst measurement device in the world is human perception. There is a reason why some of us are engineers... If i published testing results with zero data.. i would probably get fired.. even if i said "it felt better"... lol

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

So, you're saying, in effect, the strut tower brace is a worthless mod and yields no positive results from a RR/AX standpoint?

Foxxton, not trying to chap your ***** here. This is serious question: In a dragstrip scenario, when the front wheels are pulled off the ground at launch (let's say at a 35*-40* angle to the ground) ... when the full weight of the car comes crashing back down to the ground would you say that the inward angle of the top of the struts would not be better supported with a STB, thus would have no effect on whether the car sustains damage or not ... if there was no STB connecting the top of the struts when the nose came back down? Anyone ever test this? Have you?

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

You're asking a very good question. No chapped bollocks here at all. Totally different scenario and yes, I would use an STB for that scenario just to be safe until I can cleary identify it's efficacy, but for the DD, AX, and RR why? Basically an STB for AX/RR isn't useful for greatly improving handling and/or improving the chassis rigidity for the 4th Gen F-body (other applications are not being considered here, yet), so like certain items that add weight, I would forsake the STB. At the same time, an larger and sometimes hollow front stabiliser bar can add weight as well, but it's actually much more conducive to the front end sway dynamics than a chassis brace being used inappropriately (key word, item that can be useful not being used for the appropriate purpose).

Now, for Drag Racing, I definitely see why many consider the STB for a street chassis that is modified, however the method of launching with proper drag shocks are what is preffered over the 90/10 method or "catching air method." Again, use what works best for you and what is accepted in the respective club/sanctioning body, however here's some insight from the ol' fellas over at Koni NA:

http://www.koniracing.com/pdf/spa1.pdf
http://www.koniracing.com/dragstock.html

H8 LUZN

Its very possible that in the RR/AX standpoint it yeilds less benefit or no benefit for the weight gained. However, i will go with foxxton on this one and say i'd reccomend it for drag racing, especially when your getting air on the launch. Thats a totally different loading condition than cornering. Besides if your lifting the front end, a little weight on the front end isnt going to kill you.

Would i get a STB.. sure, i just wouldnt expect it to do anything except for in extreme situations. I would make sure the $$ for the STB did not detract from my other mods. One good thing is that it only hurts your vehicle weight, if that is a non-issue and you have extra $$... then why not

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Oh, not to repeat a question here, but something still arouses my curiosity. Many of the STB's utilise only two of the shock tower bolting points rather than all four for each side. Maybe it's a premature guess at the moment, but if it were to serve the purpose of bracing, why not make a design that would use all four of the bolting points on the shocks towers since there are four bolts the mount the upper shock mounts to the shocks towers? Even many of the three point designs, including the one that I have are like this as well.

NHRAMAN

iTrader: (1)

I am not gonna get into this with anyone. I have a red Hotchkiss stb and like the look of it. It does not weigh much at all. It looks good. It may or not help a street driven car. But, it does NOT hurt.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

Thanks guys ... guess I 'll keep mine on and lose weight elsewhere ... gettin' ready to spray out of the hole with a 150 wet (direct port) kit going on the car. That's why I was asking the question ... once I can hit 9's, I'm not trying to get any faster ... just a long-term goal when I bought my car ... may take a 200 hit, but, I'm hoping to reduce the weight enough to do it with a 150 shot.

I did remove the STB and seemed like I could tell a 'slight' difference'. And I took some REALLY hard corners. So, to answer wrench's question a little better, I would say (since you already have the Koni's and front sway bar) to use the money elsewhere.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Not only is the human perception many times not an accurate and very imprecise measurement tool but for the case of a street car with it's seats engineered down to govt. safety requirements, it then becomes quite inaccurate, especially in the case of the OEM 4th Gen F-bodies buckets (firebirds and TA's only slightly better). Even some of the "supercars" seats are still quite inadequate for using human perception alone.

While on the topic, that dreaded "placebo effect" word is one factor that has to be effectively taken into consideration when encountering errors so there is usually one sort of human factor scientist involved when dealing with the "human-to-machine" perspective. When most engineers decide to factor in their ergonomics for almost any device the human will interact with, they do consider their test subjects direct verbal feedback, or testimony, however there are many other variables that are taken into place in order to rid the nasty placebo effect from possibly ruining the overall efficacy and/or efficiency of the overall design. I will mention once again that the OE seats are just quite inadequate, even for most daily driving.

This is pretty much why I mention to every board member here to beware of any placebo effects, regardless of experience and/or expertise. I too am still very vulnerable to placebo effects so I too even question my own findings continuously.