FASST

Forget about the stupid 140mph reference thing...you're obviously mission the point. 2002_TAWS6 wants a better brake setup, so good for him, let's help recommend some. Personally, I have the Baer setup (including the rear upgrade kit) and after proper break-in and upkeep I can out-brake a 911 turbo (did it back when the car was a manual). I've since changed to an auto setup, but I don't feel like the brakes are overkill--kind of like how I don't feel that 400rwhp is overkill for a daily driver, but that's my own opinion. Brakes are a safety thing, and also give you more confidence when racing--I think it's a good investment. I love it when people tell me my brakes are overkill--you run out of room once at the end of a track and you'll change your opinion forever. That's my little rant about brakes.

NEway, there are several options out there for upgrades. Baer offers several levels of performance with a plethora of brake pad choices. Wilwood has a 6 piston setup, brembo offers a kit or two and I think Stoptech has one also. If you just want a rotor upgrade, the Eradispeed seems to be the choice of the masses. I'd look into a brake pad upgrade, high temp fluid and steel braded lines also.

If your setup feels that bad, maybe there is something wrong. Check you fluid level, look for leaks, check pad wear/rotor wear (are they wearing evenly? etc.).

Dustin Butts

iTrader: (5)

hey FASST...
What did Strope Speed Shop do to your car man?
I thought they are supposed to be a primo operation...?

2002_TAWS6

hey FASST thanks for the reply... i do appreciate it. Ill look into it. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Ian

What's a good pad to run on a street/strip car?

Also, what's the main "source" of break fade, and what's the best way to counter it?

Thanks guys!

FASST

Dustin Butts: You have mail!

Ian: "best" would be very subjective. I use a carbon-metallic setup. As for brake-fade, inefficient heat dissipation, brake hose expansion (your brake fluid gets pretty damn hot during hot laps, and if you're using rubber hoses, they'll stretch under hard braking which effectively lowers your line pressure) and out-gassing of your rotors (I don't think this last one is really factor anymore. In the past, if brakes were not broken in properly, the machining oil would diffuse to the surface of the rotor and actually turn the rotor green--you should still season your pads and rotors when new to insure optimal performance).

JackZ28

I have been driving on the autobahn with mine for over 2 years now, and have only replaced front rotors once. The stock rotors aren't made for that type of driving, but they are amazing nonetheless. I can't see why they wouldn't be good for any car that doesn't autocross or road race. I definitely recommend replacing the rotors, though. Something like the Eradispeeds work VERY well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> There are plenty of alternatives, such as Brembo($$$), Wilwood, RKSport, and of course, www.movit.de <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Rajun Cajun

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

And asking any car to stop from 140 to zero in 100 meters is just dumb.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It maybe dumb now, but wait. With technology moving the way it is now, who knows, it could happen.

FASST

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by xaon:
<strong>It takes you half a second to react, and in that half second you've got further than 100 meters.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, you've only gone 31.3 meters in half a second <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Just keeping you honest!

2002_TAWS6

THATS RIGHT! tell em FAST. HA! HA! HA! HAAAAAA!!!! WHOS LAUGHING NOW?!

<img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

<img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

slow

iTrader: (7)

i agree that these brakes are not the best, certainely better than the LT1 and the 3rd gens, and fox body mustangs, but still, a performance car does 3 things well, accelerates, handles, and brakes.

Have you ever driven an 2001+ M3. Drove one with the euro spec rotors (cross cast vented aluminum hubbed, w/ racing compound pads)

tell you what... 100-0 was so fast that the seatbelt left a mark for a few minutes.

Nothing wrong withe being safe when your messing around.

I almost bought a cobra due to the better brakes, but decided just to upgrade mine eventually. but everytime i drive one, or the M3 i am reminded of how poorly these brakes really are.

I cant imagine having a problem at 100+

Ryan. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

98_1LE

iTrader: (17)

I have never driven an M3, but I have outbraked a bunch of them on the road course. My brakes consisted of: stock calipers, AutoZone rotors ($38 each), Motul 5.1 fluid and Carbotech Panther pads up front. The rear brakes were stock pads and all.

You can't compare a car with race pads to a car with street pads.

steve_c

who says you can't have porsche brakes on an f-body?....

http://www.prospeedmotorsport.com/f-body_brakes.htm

Racehead

When people discuss brakes, they almost always are talking about braking power. It's not the power department that the LS1 ( or even LT1 ) brakes are lacking in, it's the heat induced performance degradation that occurs after numerous stops that finally make better brakes desirable. Any well maintained LS1 brake system will activate the antilock ( you don't wan't or need any more power than this ) numerous times. As long as this is true, then it's the tires that are limiting stopping distances, not brakes. The problem that crops up is they ( the front brakes mainly ) get hot after multiple hard stops and fluid boils, pads and rotors get too hot and glaze etc. At this point you need to start thinking about better brakes

PS I'm hoping to buy the Prospeed kit myself. My 340 rwhp car always overheats the brakes when I'm hot lapping after about 20 minutes.

slow

iTrader: (7)

Racehead , thanks, that exactly how i feel.

Ryan.

2002_TAWS6

thank god its not just me that thinks that way.

As for the person with the M3 brake information. Just wanted to say that a friend of mine wanted to buy a kit for his car and BMW said that he would loose warranty if he changed the front bumper! I asked why and they said most (if not all) BMWs have air duct that shoots cold air through the bumper to the brakes to keep them from getting warm.

Just wanted to add that to what he had said.

Also is that why the LS1 Trans Ams have holes (or whatever they're called) 1 on each side of the front bumper?

badbird88

talking to a few f-body owners a while back they informed me that it's not so much the rotor as our stock brake pads that cause the warping. Mine started warping at 3000 miles and I haven't done any serious stops....70,80,90 to zero stops. They told me to change the pads, re-turn the rotors and it should last another 25k with the stock rotors. Said something about the stock pad design was changed in the material composition and it doesn't allow the heat to escape very well thus heating up the rotors to the point of causing them to warp. One of them is using durastop pads and powerslot rotors with no problems since and the other is using the baer eradispeed rotors with hawk pads and has had no problems. I may change my pads but really want the eradispeed rotors.

Think it's a waste of money for you to go drop $2-3K on a totally new sytem when you can just upgrade the pads and rotors for half the price. If you do autocross and road racing then yes go with the 4-6 piston systems but expect to pay anywhere from $3k and up! Get the rotors and pads and then go use the rest on performance upgrades. Oh and don't pump the brakes when coming to a stop...this will heat up the rotors worse than keeping you foot on the pedal and gradually coming to a stop. My 88' TA has solid dish AMerican racing rims and I haven't warped them ever but they don't stop nowhere near as good as our new cars do in stock form.

BurnOut

iTrader: (1)

With the stock pads, I warped my stock rotors after less than 10k miles of street driving. Replaced the stock rotors with a set of KVR blanks, retained the factory pads, and it works just fine for me now (on the street). Works well enough to surprise a buddy of mine that has some seat time in some pretty serious road course cars, any way.

Of course, if I am trail braking, all bets are off. On the stock shocks/springs, the *** end likes to lift (a LOT) and the rear ABS kicks in as the rear tires start to lock. It's a real pain in the ***. I am pretty convinced, though, that the problem there doesn't lie in the brakes, but in reducing nosedive. Even in a straight line under high speed, heavy braking (stabbing the brakes @130 or so) my problem has been trying to keep the rear bumper behind the front bumper (again, due to extreme nosedive and the resulting light *** end).

Nonetheless, I recently stumbled across a good deal on the Brembo setup for the front of the car. I am currently debating about what I want to do at the rear of the car before going through the trouble of installing the big front brakes, though. That, and I'm just lazy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Seriously, though, I am waiting to get my shocks/springs so I can see how the car behaves with my driving style.

In any event, as some folks have mentioned, there are numerous brake kits out there to let you run the 'Vette fronts; add some agressive pads, some braided lines, and good fluid and that should get you hauled down pretty quick.

raffi

iTrader: (1)

dudeust go here http://www.thunderracing.com/index.c...ategoryid=1019
and you get really good braking for under $800 <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

01Z0H6

iTrader: (63)

FWIW i priced a complete set (4) of rotors & brake pads (4) @ Auto Zone today $275.94 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
with a "Lifetime" warranty (Brake Pads) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> !! Tomorrow is pay day & i will definately be going that route!
Beat that! Anyone???????
I know, i know... you get what you pay for!
Mine is a daily driver so thiey should work well for me.

slow

iTrader: (7)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 2002_TAWS6:
<strong>thank god its not just me that thinks that way.

As for the person with the M3 brake information. Just wanted to say that a friend of mine wanted to buy a kit for his car and BMW said that he would loose warranty if he changed the front bumper! I asked why and they said most (if not all) BMWs have air duct that shoots cold air through the bumper to the brakes to keep them from getting warm.

Just wanted to add that to what he had said.

Also is that why the LS1 Trans Ams have holes (or whatever they're called) 1 on each side of the front bumper?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yes, this is true. (on the m3, there are functional brake ducts, i think the ta is the same, ill check tonight.

Warranty.. when you have bought 4 different new bmw's in 2 years from the same dealer.. you get some leeway with the service manager. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

(not my family..a friends)

<small>[ October 17, 2002, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: slow ]</small>