driving w/o a sway bar
09-15-2006, 05:49 PM
#21
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I didn't even notice when I got my car that the previous owner had the front swaybar removed, the car handled like **** compared with having even just a STOCK bar put back on. My car is mostly for drag racing purposes, but I still drive it a lot. Had a few scary run-ins wondering why my car was handling like ****, until I got down and inspected it and realized something large was missing.
Sam really knows his ****, I know this from talking to him. I would definitely heed to his advice.
Sam really knows his ****, I know this from talking to him. I would definitely heed to his advice.
09-19-2006, 02:15 AM
#22
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Daily Driven for now, with no front sway bar here, i yanked that a few weeks ago, u can totally tell how much the front end comes up more! honestly i cant even tell a difference when driving normally, when i take a turn there is a bit more roll but the SFC's help out a lot.
I did it because ive got big meats out back, i rarely even haul *** or drive stupid with the car.
I did it because ive got big meats out back, i rarely even haul *** or drive stupid with the car.
09-19-2006, 10:21 AM
#23
I'm not really sure how to say this without coming off wrong. I don't mean it to sound the way I think it might.....
The SFC's do NOTHING, and note the capital letters, NOTHING for roll control. They are chassis braces, not items that add roll stiffness. This is a classic example of how folks get mis-lead. You may feel that way, though I'm not sure why you would, but the SFC's in NO WAY can make up for the removal of an anti-roll (sway) bar.
A bar works by twisting and adding resistance, it's a torsion bar basically. This happens when you compress one wheel, and the other extends, even a little bit. SFC's do not connect to the suspension of the car at all and do not effect body roll.
The SFC's do NOTHING, and note the capital letters, NOTHING for roll control. They are chassis braces, not items that add roll stiffness. This is a classic example of how folks get mis-lead. You may feel that way, though I'm not sure why you would, but the SFC's in NO WAY can make up for the removal of an anti-roll (sway) bar.
A bar works by twisting and adding resistance, it's a torsion bar basically. This happens when you compress one wheel, and the other extends, even a little bit. SFC's do not connect to the suspension of the car at all and do not effect body roll.
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09-19-2006, 10:56 AM
#24
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I gotta say that I am with Sam even before Sam posted in this thread. To drive without a Front sway bar I think is madness. To me it is a part of safety and driving without a Front sway bar is like driving without a seat belt. Yeah you might not need it 95% of the time. But it is the other 5% of the time that scares the hell out of me. Driving without a sway bar is just ignorance to me. You see that it not having it gets you a few tenths in the quarter so you leave it off. A very single track mind. If it is just a drag car and sees no time on the road and isn't driven around for pleasure then fine because it is a purpose intensive vehicle.
To anybody that thinks about taking the sway bar off, leave it on and unhook it at the track. What is the difference of laying in the grass or dirt at the track than laying on the floor of your garage? Not much I would say for most of our garages.
I would take advice from the people that are evidently experienced in suspension (Sam) and not just a laymen who comes on here claiming that he has been OK so far.
To anybody that thinks about taking the sway bar off, leave it on and unhook it at the track. What is the difference of laying in the grass or dirt at the track than laying on the floor of your garage? Not much I would say for most of our garages.
I would take advice from the people that are evidently experienced in suspension (Sam) and not just a laymen who comes on here claiming that he has been OK so far.
09-19-2006, 02:47 PM
#25
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some people like cucumbers better than pickles.
Option of how you want your car to ride, setup for the track/twisties/daily driven etc, not everyone wants their car with stiff suspension etc, Its all in how you want your car setup.
Option of how you want your car to ride, setup for the track/twisties/daily driven etc, not everyone wants their car with stiff suspension etc, Its all in how you want your car setup.
09-19-2006, 02:56 PM
#26
You're wrong. Nobody is telling you to put a larger bar on, or even to not disconnect the stock one at the track.
This is like doing something dumb like buying the first house or car you see, whatever it might be. Or eating nothing but Big Mac's after having a heart attack. Actually more to the point it's like eating lots of them knowing they aren't good for you *while* knowing you have 300+ point colestorol.
Would you take screws out of your suspension? How about a ladder? Would you feel comfortable driving across a bridge that had supports taken out of it? This is a part (and not a small one) the car was engineered with that's somehow just become "unimportant". It most certainly is NOT, and the car is most certainly unstable without a front bar that is working. Clearly you all will do it anyway. I hope you are nowhere near me when you need to take evasive action.
This is like doing something dumb like buying the first house or car you see, whatever it might be. Or eating nothing but Big Mac's after having a heart attack. Actually more to the point it's like eating lots of them knowing they aren't good for you *while* knowing you have 300+ point colestorol.
Would you take screws out of your suspension? How about a ladder? Would you feel comfortable driving across a bridge that had supports taken out of it? This is a part (and not a small one) the car was engineered with that's somehow just become "unimportant". It most certainly is NOT, and the car is most certainly unstable without a front bar that is working. Clearly you all will do it anyway. I hope you are nowhere near me when you need to take evasive action.
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09-20-2006, 05:23 AM
#29
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Well then please set me up a good suspension list, where i can take it to the track, dragstrip and launch the car on slicks/skinnies and pull great 60'. Looking at about putting down 625-635RWHP thru the auto. SFC's are all i have done. I also want to be able to drive the car daily and have a good looking stance. Next check will leave me with about $1300 towards suspension modifications. Car is driven daily but not much, about 3-4miles back and forth to work. Weekend warrior.
09-20-2006, 07:24 PM
#31
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No one answered my question I asked earlier 
My question is, does removing your front swaybar help you with anything at the track if you are on stock power? 400 hp?
Again I'm not a drag race guy. I figured removing the front bar was just to prevent too much driver input and prevents the car from darting around on the track. And at under 400 hp would that really matter? Or does it help make your launch easier?
My question is, does removing your front swaybar help you with anything at the track if you are on stock power? 400 hp?
Again I'm not a drag race guy. I figured removing the front bar was just to prevent too much driver input and prevents the car from darting around on the track. And at under 400 hp would that really matter? Or does it help make your launch easier?
09-20-2006, 08:26 PM
#32
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From my experience, it made a negligible difference at launch but significantly worsened cornering through the removal of some needed spring rate on each corner that is partially induced through the swaybars torsion effect.
There is a way of increasing spring rate through each corner in order to eliminate some of the need for the swaybar, however you'd have to dramatically increase the individual spring rates for each corner. Through this procedure, you now have spring rates that will then not allow so much wheel and/or suspension travel that shall the individual wheel encounter a bump, it won't compensate as well as a softer spring would. Basically, you run the risk of having the wheel lose contact upon the specific wheel's bump. I'm talking about rates that exceed the 1000lb. on each side for the front end. For a mostly flat track, this is okay, however for the street, this is still not safe.
In summary, the individual corner springs are now directly performing two duties instead of one. It might sound convenient, but it's not the same physics at play. Again, the individual corner springs rates should be devised along with the proper sway bar design for the overall suspension effects.
FWIW, I have discovered that having at least a 32/19 or a 35/21or22 combo is much easier to work with AFA spring rates go for either street or track. Using nothing but individual corner spring rates and no swaybar has had too much of a tradeoff with my track times (but to each corner carver to his own).
Again, one of those instances where there is no such thing as a free lunch.
There is a way of increasing spring rate through each corner in order to eliminate some of the need for the swaybar, however you'd have to dramatically increase the individual spring rates for each corner. Through this procedure, you now have spring rates that will then not allow so much wheel and/or suspension travel that shall the individual wheel encounter a bump, it won't compensate as well as a softer spring would. Basically, you run the risk of having the wheel lose contact upon the specific wheel's bump. I'm talking about rates that exceed the 1000lb. on each side for the front end. For a mostly flat track, this is okay, however for the street, this is still not safe.
In summary, the individual corner springs are now directly performing two duties instead of one. It might sound convenient, but it's not the same physics at play. Again, the individual corner springs rates should be devised along with the proper sway bar design for the overall suspension effects.
FWIW, I have discovered that having at least a 32/19 or a 35/21or22 combo is much easier to work with AFA spring rates go for either street or track. Using nothing but individual corner spring rates and no swaybar has had too much of a tradeoff with my track times (but to each corner carver to his own).
Again, one of those instances where there is no such thing as a free lunch.
09-21-2006, 01:08 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by JoeyAnderson
I run 3.5" front wheels, no bar, big meats out back and a welded drag bar ~4000 miles a month, and I haven't even come close to a close call yet. Drive like you have some sense and you will be fine.
10-06-2006, 07:16 PM
#34
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I currently run w/o a front sway only for weight transfer but i've since added hal shocks and tightened them up along with bmr springs so it aint that bad but there's still a good difference running without one.
i am gonna throw mine back on for more stability.
i am gonna throw mine back on for more stability.
10-06-2006, 11:53 PM
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having driven my TA for the last two months with out a front sway bar due to me bending the original in a small accident. It sucks. It sucks big time. Everytime I drove my car it was an *** puckering time. can you do it? Sure you can. Would I reccomend it...oh hell no. just like you can drive on the street with Drag radials would I reccomend it...hell no not after hydroplaning on a little bit of water and ending up in a ditch with a broken a-arm and bent sway bar.
10-08-2006, 12:37 PM
#38
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I gotta chime in on this.
Sam is 100% correct.
Having said that I removed my front sway bar to see how it would feel. A week later I removed the sway bar brackets because I knew the sway bar was never going back on.
I run skinnies all the time and have an Eibach drag launch kit installed. The car gets driven about 3000 miles a year and 99% of that is late nite street stuff. I have done a few evasive manuevers with the sway bar off (not real life just testing in an open area) and while its really scary, I feel like I could handle it if needed.
The point is the chance of me needing it are low, the car does not see much mileage and I am driving it late at nite on weekends when there is very little traffic (as compared to rush hour commute) If its a daily driver or sees any real street usage leave the bar on all the time and unhook for the strip.
Safety is what Sam is trying to get across, the car is MUCH safer with the front sway bar in place and if you drive the car daily then you might get lulled into a false sense of security and forget the sway bar aint there.
I drive my car so infrequently that the fact that its a basket case in the handling department is readily apparent and I never forget it.
Going fast in a straight line is my only purpose for the car.
Sam is 100% correct.
Having said that I removed my front sway bar to see how it would feel. A week later I removed the sway bar brackets because I knew the sway bar was never going back on.
I run skinnies all the time and have an Eibach drag launch kit installed. The car gets driven about 3000 miles a year and 99% of that is late nite street stuff. I have done a few evasive manuevers with the sway bar off (not real life just testing in an open area) and while its really scary, I feel like I could handle it if needed.
The point is the chance of me needing it are low, the car does not see much mileage and I am driving it late at nite on weekends when there is very little traffic (as compared to rush hour commute) If its a daily driver or sees any real street usage leave the bar on all the time and unhook for the strip.
Safety is what Sam is trying to get across, the car is MUCH safer with the front sway bar in place and if you drive the car daily then you might get lulled into a false sense of security and forget the sway bar aint there.
I drive my car so infrequently that the fact that its a basket case in the handling department is readily apparent and I never forget it.
Going fast in a straight line is my only purpose for the car.
10-08-2006, 07:15 PM
#39
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Here is a little story for you.
I had a 98 SS that i drove every day. I loved the way that the car handled and cornered. I could take on/off ramps at 80 all day.. loved it. BUT.. I, much like the rest of you, went to the track and wanted more. So i took off the front sway bar and tried that. It did lose my cornering, but i thought that it would be ok and i left it off. About a year later i was hualin down I80 and the suv that was next to me wanted to be in my lane also at that very minute. I swearved out of the way, but the car totally lost traction, and i slid in the middle of 3 lanes sideways until the suv that wanted in my lane met my drivers side in a hard way. The car was not crushed or totalled but it hurt it and my pride in a very bad way. When the body shop called me and told me they were done with it, i had them put on a new swaybar and link kit before i would even go get it.
I believe you can drive without it, but you can also have sex without a rubber...what could go wrong there???
I had a 98 SS that i drove every day. I loved the way that the car handled and cornered. I could take on/off ramps at 80 all day.. loved it. BUT.. I, much like the rest of you, went to the track and wanted more. So i took off the front sway bar and tried that. It did lose my cornering, but i thought that it would be ok and i left it off. About a year later i was hualin down I80 and the suv that was next to me wanted to be in my lane also at that very minute. I swearved out of the way, but the car totally lost traction, and i slid in the middle of 3 lanes sideways until the suv that wanted in my lane met my drivers side in a hard way. The car was not crushed or totalled but it hurt it and my pride in a very bad way. When the body shop called me and told me they were done with it, i had them put on a new swaybar and link kit before i would even go get it.
I believe you can drive without it, but you can also have sex without a rubber...what could go wrong there???
10-08-2006, 07:46 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by pont463
Here is a little story for you.
I had a 98 SS that i drove every day. I loved the way that the car handled and cornered. I could take on/off ramps at 80 all day.. loved it. BUT.. I, much like the rest of you, went to the track and wanted more. So i took off the front sway bar and tried that. It did lose my cornering, but i thought that it would be ok and i left it off. About a year later i was hualin down I80 and the suv that was next to me wanted to be in my lane also at that very minute. I swearved out of the way, but the car totally lost traction, and i slid in the middle of 3 lanes sideways until the suv that wanted in my lane met my drivers side in a hard way. The car was not crushed or totalled but it hurt it and my pride in a very bad way. When the body shop called me and told me they were done with it, i had them put on a new swaybar and link kit before i would even go get it.
I believe you can drive without it, but you can also have sex without a rubber...what could go wrong there???
I had a 98 SS that i drove every day. I loved the way that the car handled and cornered. I could take on/off ramps at 80 all day.. loved it. BUT.. I, much like the rest of you, went to the track and wanted more. So i took off the front sway bar and tried that. It did lose my cornering, but i thought that it would be ok and i left it off. About a year later i was hualin down I80 and the suv that was next to me wanted to be in my lane also at that very minute. I swearved out of the way, but the car totally lost traction, and i slid in the middle of 3 lanes sideways until the suv that wanted in my lane met my drivers side in a hard way. The car was not crushed or totalled but it hurt it and my pride in a very bad way. When the body shop called me and told me they were done with it, i had them put on a new swaybar and link kit before i would even go get it.
I believe you can drive without it, but you can also have sex without a rubber...what could go wrong there???
That is precisely what I tell my wife, it is not her driving I am worried about it is the other brain donors that managed to squeek by the DMV test by lucky guesses and a burnt out driving grader...
