Lightweight springs?
10-30-2006, 10:15 AM
#21
You can't lower a car and not up the rates. Unless you like driving around riding on your bumpstops for springs. The springs support the mass of the car, if you go lower you lose working travel, which means your springs have to be stiffer to be able to hold the car up in the shorter travel.
the reason nobody makes springs like that is because it's a horrible idea and one that doesn't take into account the way a suspension works.
the reason nobody makes springs like that is because it's a horrible idea and one that doesn't take into account the way a suspension works.
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10-30-2006, 11:29 AM
#22
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I just weighted a few things to add data to the above discussion:
Upper rubber hat 2lb 6oz
Upper Race shock mount 8 oz
600lb Hypercoil 2.5"X8" 3lb 10oz
Koni DA with stock seat 7lb 10oz
Bilstein HD with stock seat 6lb 10oz
Bilstein Race shock 3lb 14oz
Bilstein Race coil over 1lb 6 oz
Sam's Spring (Sams Weight) 6lb
So the weight savings where its legal (SM, AI ect) the weight savings for the Steel Bilstein race shock with weld in mounts and a race spring over Koni DA with Sam's spring will be ~6lb per side.
For those that must run the stock upper mount (ESP, CMC ect), the weigth savings for the Steel Bilstein Race shocks and race spring would be ~4lbs per side.
The weight savings would be much higher if you were switching from a heavier stock style spring (Eibach Pro Kits weigh a TON). Just wanted to add some real data on the weights.
Jason S.
Upper rubber hat 2lb 6oz
Upper Race shock mount 8 oz
600lb Hypercoil 2.5"X8" 3lb 10oz
Koni DA with stock seat 7lb 10oz
Bilstein HD with stock seat 6lb 10oz
Bilstein Race shock 3lb 14oz
Bilstein Race coil over 1lb 6 oz
Sam's Spring (Sams Weight) 6lb
So the weight savings where its legal (SM, AI ect) the weight savings for the Steel Bilstein race shock with weld in mounts and a race spring over Koni DA with Sam's spring will be ~6lb per side.
For those that must run the stock upper mount (ESP, CMC ect), the weigth savings for the Steel Bilstein Race shocks and race spring would be ~4lbs per side.
The weight savings would be much higher if you were switching from a heavier stock style spring (Eibach Pro Kits weigh a TON). Just wanted to add some real data on the weights.
Jason S.
10-30-2006, 07:15 PM
#23
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Shortening the spring and upping the rates make sense. I just need to find the best compromise. I still think that would be a Hotchkis spring made of the VVS material.
10-30-2006, 07:19 PM
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i don't see why a lightweight spring is so important......fill me in
and black hawk i think what your looking for is the same as i am. a car that turns better then stock, i little stiffer of a ride, and one that can still launch.
i am going with koni sa's from sam when i get some more $$ saved. the sa's shocks imo will be great, you can do the lower perch and heater hose mod for a 3/4" drop, and if you bet bigger bars they help you turn, a bigger rear bar is better for the track and you can take off the front bar if you are trying to get your new pb.
i hope i didn't get in the wrong direction
and black hawk i think what your looking for is the same as i am. a car that turns better then stock, i little stiffer of a ride, and one that can still launch.
i am going with koni sa's from sam when i get some more $$ saved. the sa's shocks imo will be great, you can do the lower perch and heater hose mod for a 3/4" drop, and if you bet bigger bars they help you turn, a bigger rear bar is better for the track and you can take off the front bar if you are trying to get your new pb.
i hope i didn't get in the wrong direction
10-30-2006, 07:20 PM
#25
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Yup the Koni SA shocks are part of the equation. That isn't enough of a drop though (for me).
The way my car sits there is about 3 inches between the top of my rear tire and the fender. Just an estimate, i'd have to measure to be sure, but it's up there.
The way my car sits there is about 3 inches between the top of my rear tire and the fender. Just an estimate, i'd have to measure to be sure, but it's up there.
10-31-2006, 10:28 AM
#26
Honestly, you don't know what's enough and not enough right now pics are only guidelines. Nitpicking over 1/4" now when you haven't seen what any look like on your particular car isn't going to work
Here's the deal, either you run stock springs on the lower perch, *or* you pick a lowering spring that's not slammed and of decent rate. You choices there are Hotchkis (1"), Strano (1.25"), SLP Level 1 (3/4", but usually more in the rear, and the softest).
Also, you are so panicy about spring rates. Yes, more rate firms the ride, but the stock shocks are so crappy that they destroy the ride. Ask most anyone here, lowering springs or not how much better the car rides with *proper* lowering springs. Hell, I talked with a customer just yesterday (maybe it was Friday) who had Sportlines and put my springs on instead. Upped the front rate 190 pounds vs. Sportlines. Not only does the car roll and dive less, but it rode significantly better.
Here's the deal, either you run stock springs on the lower perch, *or* you pick a lowering spring that's not slammed and of decent rate. You choices there are Hotchkis (1"), Strano (1.25"), SLP Level 1 (3/4", but usually more in the rear, and the softest).
Also, you are so panicy about spring rates. Yes, more rate firms the ride, but the stock shocks are so crappy that they destroy the ride. Ask most anyone here, lowering springs or not how much better the car rides with *proper* lowering springs. Hell, I talked with a customer just yesterday (maybe it was Friday) who had Sportlines and put my springs on instead. Upped the front rate 190 pounds vs. Sportlines. Not only does the car roll and dive less, but it rode significantly better.
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10-31-2006, 11:30 AM
#27
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If you want to fiddle with things to get exactly the ride height you like, you'll need to go with a shorter spring and a weight jack. Then you'll spend some time with a jack tweaking things to your liking. In the rear you'll want a 5" diameter spring, 8-10" long spring flat and ground on both ends and then get a weight jack from Speedway.
As for the weight, you want to reduce weight on a performance vehicle in general, but for handling you really want to reduce unsprung mass and ~1/2 the mass of the spring and shock are unsprung. Hope that helps,
Jason S.
As for the weight, you want to reduce weight on a performance vehicle in general, but for handling you really want to reduce unsprung mass and ~1/2 the mass of the spring and shock are unsprung. Hope that helps,
Jason S.
10-31-2006, 11:39 AM
#28
That's true, he could go with a coil-over/weight jacker setup. Of course to do that on a Koni requires modification ot the front shock.....
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2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
10-31-2006, 09:51 PM
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I just like to consider weight on each mod, that way I don't end up with a pile of parts that turn into a bloated car. If I can save a few lbs while upgrading at the same time, mission accomplished. I am still considering the Strano springs and will keep them on my list for spring mods.
