koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

Yes, there appears to be no straight answer.
Opinions appear to be like Internet sites; there are a ton of them out there.
I have been trying to figure this one out too.
I will say, Sam has an excellent reputation out there; I would not ignore his advice. But in the end, it appears that you have to balance your tolerance of bind, noise, and cost. As well as your driving style and preferences.
For example, I do not autocross, nor is cornering an issue with me (I have a sport bike for that). But drag/street racing is important, and lack of noise is extremely critical. So my choices will be tailored with that in mind.
Best of luck.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Maybe you need to examine how things move, and why one size doesn't fit all. If you are looking for absolutes, you are in the wrong game. This is why setups on race cars aren't all the same, even though they might be of similar speeds. A suspension is a package, if you don't understand the package as a whole, or any of the parts of it... that's going to create a problem somewhere.

I think I'm done here, because it it's a "straight" answer you are looking for--I can't give that to you because there are always "what if's" and "but then's".

Doski

But then how will i know if i should buy it or not?

Ok a refrase....

I want to autocross will LCA help me or not?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

You learn all you can about how and why it works, and you don't depend on all the random opinions on the internet. How did you decided on the parts you have now? Are you sure sure you shouldn't have done something else? How is this any different?

LCA's could well cure your wheelhop. They might not, you don't know until you try. A Torque Arm could cure it, or not. Brackets might (or maybe won't help either). What parts will muck up the suspension geometry? Which won't. Which let the axle articulate freely, which don't? Is it possible that while no individual part could cure hop, just maybe a combination of things might?

I don't have a wheelhop problem. I'm lowered, and don't have LCA's or brackets. I do have more shock than you do, and I have an aftermarket torque arm. Maybe you need to look there first.

93TAWicked1

iTrader: (28)

That is one of the best posts I've read in awhile. Well said.

You have to do find the answers through trial and error ultimately....not cheap but there is no sure thing part/package for a particular car. Thats part of the fun I guess your NEVER done...

Ironhead

Wouldn't matter. They'd be illegal in any class where these cars could be competitive (at least in near street trim).

Back in my drag racing days (before I knew any better) I installed a set of poly / bearing LCAs but still had the stock shocks and stock ride height. Guess what? It would still wheelhop hard enough at the line to shake your fillings loose.

Years later I got smart, called Sam, started autocrossing and put some good shocks on the car (first time around was Sam's Bilstein revalves. second time around was Koni SAs) Hmmmm.... no more wheelhop. What changed?

FWIW I put my stock LCAs back on this year and got faster. I'm not saying it's because of the LCAs. I'm saying spend your money on shocks first.






And while I'm at it....

I took my STB off and never even noticed it was gone.

I cut off my SFCs and can hardly tell a bit of difference.

I can get my brakes hot enough that I'll trail a smoke plume behind the car and experience NO LOSS of braking ability due to "outgassing" with my blank rotors.

I have at least 3/32" toe out dialed into the front end, yet the car doesn't launch itself into the nearest ditch and burst into flames.

My aluminum flywheel is a pussycat and should have been stock.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

You typically have to weld and drill right through the bottom of the original bracket (not easy). I don't think there is any way to make them unless you just drill them after welding onto the car.

He suggested LCA's, not brackets. Or, did I misunderstand your post? (and I might have)

I won a regional autocross championship (not nationals like Sam has done more than a few times) in a class where I could run aftermarket LCA's, and I ran the stock ones and I have a stock torque arm too.

I'm lowered and have no wheel hop issues either. I'm running Koni DA's (not saying you need DA's, just providing a data point).

TooSlow02

Sam and Trackbird are two of our road racing experts here on the boards, so I would take their advice if you want to zero in on a solution quicker (and possibly saving you some money, too).

But as they mentioned, there are no absolutes. I still have wheelhop accelerating and braking, and I have Koni SA fronts and DA rears (Ground Control setup too, thanks to Sam). They made a huge improvement, but my car is going to need more than a couple upgrades to completely cure it. Hopefully one or two will do the trick in your case, but my car's being more of a bitch and I'm going to need to do more tinkering. It's the way of things with performance cars and hard driving.

Not to hijack the thread but I haven't had time to call you during the day, Sam. This brake hop I have might be the end of me (or at least the car). Any ideas? I have the 600/150 Ground Control setup, your swaybars, Koni SA fronts set six sweeps from full hard, DA rears set one full turn from hard on rebound and full soft on compression, stock control arms front and rear, stock torque arm, dual rod end panhard rod with the rear axle centered. Ride height is only dropped 3/4" up front and 1 1/4" in the rear. It hops so bad under hard braking that the car gets sideways, and it's all I can do to keep it shiny side up. Should I try different settings before I throw another part on it?

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

I'm not sure I qualify as any kind of an expert, but I've tried a few things from time to time, even had one or two of them work.

I had brake hop problems until I quit dive bombing the brakes. I also had problems if I was on the brakes and botched a downshift. Once I quit pounding on (stabbing?) the brakes, my brake hop issues all but vanished. I also started running a slightly more aggressive front brake pad than what I had on the rear. Like a Hawk HP+ with HPS rears, or Carbotech XP8's on the front and Panther Plus rears, etc. I'm not saying that this is your issue, but it was a major one I had when I was new to autocrossing this car. I started doing my braking earlier, which had the side benefit of making me smoother (better setup?) for the corners.

I'm running DA's. Front are 5 clicks from soft and 4 sweeps from full stiff on compression. Rears are 5 clicks (or is it 6?) and about 1 1/4 turns of rebound from full soft. Stock LCA's, stock torque arm, dual rod ended PHB, 35mm solid front bar, 22mm hollow (strano) rear bar. Nothing fancy, but I eventually had to fix the driver to cure my issues. It seemed to be the only way (in my case).

Doski

Then i´ll take their advice and do like they do, run with stock LCA.
Since the wheelhop is not bothering me so much, i hardly have it, i wont risk my handling with aftermarket LCA.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

One size does not fit all. We're not saying that you can't or shouldn't run aftermarket LCA's. We're just saying that we do and we don't have wheel hop problems. Each car is different. LCA's might help your car. Just stay away from the versions with poly on both ends. I'd either do a heim joint on one end and rubber on the other, or a heim joint with poly on the other end.

If you do any at all.

Doski

my main concern is that it will hurt handling not if it cures wheelhop......

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Heim/Heim LCA's will not hurt handling. They might make noise as the ends wear, but they won't hurt handling.

Viper

iTrader: (6)

"Any ideas? I have the 600/150 Ground Control setup, your swaybars, Koni SA fronts set six sweeps from full hard, DA rears set one full turn from hard on rebound and full soft on compression, stock control arms front and rear, stock torque arm, dual rod end panhard rod with the rear axle centered."

Just joining the fray and adding 2 more cents.

Torque arm on my car fixed the wheelhop issue.

As stated, all cars are different and it cost me a lot of money in parts and trial and error to find the right combo. After 7 years, I now love my combo!