Suspension busgings and ends?
01-22-2007, 05:08 PM
#1
Suspension bushings I want to start a sticky for people who want increased handling and as close to a factory ride as can be had. Notice I said increased handling and not extreme. I know you have to give up some ride quality to ride on rails, which is not my objective.
My car has 45K miles on it and it rides pretty bad. I think this has a lot to do with my shock/spring combo, but what are the basic parts that need to be replaced or changed to increase handling without sacrificing comfort for those of us who do a lot of daily driving and/or just want to enjoy the cruise?
Here are the parts I can think of:
-Lower Control Arm bushings
-Panhard Rod bushings.
-Torque Arm Bushing
-Transmission Mount? Same as Torque Arm?
-Tie- rod ends
-Swaybar endlinks front/rear
Now, from what I read, Rod Ends need to be replaced often and increase NVH (noise, vibration and harshness.) Poly Ends also increase NVH and require frequent greasing. Solid rubber bushings won’t react to corners as well but do INCREASE handling and require no maintenance and do not increase NVH. How correct is this?
I also searched and gathered that poly/poly LCA’s were bad because they bind. Factory LCA’s are stamped steel but allow the suspension to work without binding. This is why I was thinking of just doing 1LE bushings or the Moog Problem Solver bushings with my factory LCA’s. I guess what I want to know is what parts of the suspension should be replaced with what kind of bushings or ends.
For the PHR, what does someone like myself with 11” rims and wide tires do to center the rearend? Am I forced into doing a poly/rod or rod/rod adjustable PHR?
For swaybars, I actually read that poly is fine. Here is a quote, “You won’t notice the poly sway bar bushings until you start hitting the corners hard. Just driving down the street the sway bars aren't doing anything, which is why IMHO poly's the only way to go with sway bars- because it has no effect on regular driving, but helps with the aggressive cornering, when you want it.
For the T/A and/or Transmission Mount, is rubber the only way to go for a compliant ride? I read that poly really, really increases NVH in multiple posts. Is there a 1LE or Moog 1LE style replacement for this?
Last thing is the tie-rod ends. My car has been lowered since 10k miles. I read in a Super Chevy Magazine a long time ago that tie-rod ends need to be relocated in order to correct the suspension geometry. I never did this because the kit from RKSport was $200-$250. Could mine be ruined after 35k miles with a 2” drop?
Am I leaving anything else out? Please correct me if anything I said was wrong and please chime in if you have any experiences or information you feel would help out. I’m not going to get into the shock and spring topic. There are plenty of threads even daily that deal with this. All I am going to say is that shocks seem to make the biggest impact on our suspension handling and ride as they are a shock absorber and dampening tool for springs. I am doing Single Adjustable Koni’s for the lifetime warranty and so that I can set it to my liking.
My car has 45K miles on it and it rides pretty bad. I think this has a lot to do with my shock/spring combo, but what are the basic parts that need to be replaced or changed to increase handling without sacrificing comfort for those of us who do a lot of daily driving and/or just want to enjoy the cruise?
Here are the parts I can think of:
-Lower Control Arm bushings
-Panhard Rod bushings.
-Torque Arm Bushing
-Transmission Mount? Same as Torque Arm?
-Tie- rod ends
-Swaybar endlinks front/rear
Now, from what I read, Rod Ends need to be replaced often and increase NVH (noise, vibration and harshness.) Poly Ends also increase NVH and require frequent greasing. Solid rubber bushings won’t react to corners as well but do INCREASE handling and require no maintenance and do not increase NVH. How correct is this?
I also searched and gathered that poly/poly LCA’s were bad because they bind. Factory LCA’s are stamped steel but allow the suspension to work without binding. This is why I was thinking of just doing 1LE bushings or the Moog Problem Solver bushings with my factory LCA’s. I guess what I want to know is what parts of the suspension should be replaced with what kind of bushings or ends.
For the PHR, what does someone like myself with 11” rims and wide tires do to center the rearend? Am I forced into doing a poly/rod or rod/rod adjustable PHR?
For swaybars, I actually read that poly is fine. Here is a quote, “You won’t notice the poly sway bar bushings until you start hitting the corners hard. Just driving down the street the sway bars aren't doing anything, which is why IMHO poly's the only way to go with sway bars- because it has no effect on regular driving, but helps with the aggressive cornering, when you want it.
For the T/A and/or Transmission Mount, is rubber the only way to go for a compliant ride? I read that poly really, really increases NVH in multiple posts. Is there a 1LE or Moog 1LE style replacement for this?
Last thing is the tie-rod ends. My car has been lowered since 10k miles. I read in a Super Chevy Magazine a long time ago that tie-rod ends need to be relocated in order to correct the suspension geometry. I never did this because the kit from RKSport was $200-$250. Could mine be ruined after 35k miles with a 2” drop?
Am I leaving anything else out? Please correct me if anything I said was wrong and please chime in if you have any experiences or information you feel would help out. I’m not going to get into the shock and spring topic. There are plenty of threads even daily that deal with this. All I am going to say is that shocks seem to make the biggest impact on our suspension handling and ride as they are a shock absorber and dampening tool for springs. I am doing Single Adjustable Koni’s for the lifetime warranty and so that I can set it to my liking.
Last edited by SStolen; 01-22-2007 at 09:36 PM.
01-22-2007, 05:12 PM
#2
Part numbers and businesses that sell these parts would also be greatly appreciated. I mentioned Moog bushings several times but only read about them in searches. I have no idea who would carry them. Summit or somewhere local like AutoZone or Sears. Thanks again.
01-22-2007, 08:30 PM
#3
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I'm interested in seeing what people say about this.
I agree that poly sway bar bushings have very little neg impact on ride.
I think stock rubber bushings should b fine in LCAs, 1LE replacements seem like a good idea. I realy do not see y so many replace their LCAs anyway, especially w bind prone tubular poly/poly s. The factory control arms r SUPPOSED TO flex, it allows articulation. It only needs strength for front/rear axle movement--they have that.
I'm really wondering y your bushings would be bad though at only 45K. I would speculate that the bad ride has much more to do w the lowered stance, heavier (wider) wheels, and your shocks. If ride is a priority, y not a more modest drop, w more stock rates, and QUALITY SHOCKS (Konis, or revalved bilstiens).
As 4 the PHB, it is worth replacing, and is NEEDED when lowering the car even a little, as different length is needed by ride height. I didn't want rod ends on the car for the noise/wearing out issue, but compromised here because side 2 side motion is a bad thing. Articulation is needed here also, making a tubular bar w/poly bushing a poor choice IMHO. I like how it rides w it better, because it doesn't hop around (side 2 side) over bumps anymore. As far as adjusment, with the suspension at ride height, measure from the outside of the rims, to a plumb bomb hung over the wheel well. Center it for cosmetics and to avoid rub.
Sorry I don't know about the tie rods or part #s. But I really think you may b missing the forrest 4 the trees. Heavy wheels and tires, lowered stance, and cheap or worn shocks are the bigger enemy to ride quality here.
I agree that poly sway bar bushings have very little neg impact on ride.
I think stock rubber bushings should b fine in LCAs, 1LE replacements seem like a good idea. I realy do not see y so many replace their LCAs anyway, especially w bind prone tubular poly/poly s. The factory control arms r SUPPOSED TO flex, it allows articulation. It only needs strength for front/rear axle movement--they have that.
I'm really wondering y your bushings would be bad though at only 45K. I would speculate that the bad ride has much more to do w the lowered stance, heavier (wider) wheels, and your shocks. If ride is a priority, y not a more modest drop, w more stock rates, and QUALITY SHOCKS (Konis, or revalved bilstiens).
As 4 the PHB, it is worth replacing, and is NEEDED when lowering the car even a little, as different length is needed by ride height. I didn't want rod ends on the car for the noise/wearing out issue, but compromised here because side 2 side motion is a bad thing. Articulation is needed here also, making a tubular bar w/poly bushing a poor choice IMHO. I like how it rides w it better, because it doesn't hop around (side 2 side) over bumps anymore. As far as adjusment, with the suspension at ride height, measure from the outside of the rims, to a plumb bomb hung over the wheel well. Center it for cosmetics and to avoid rub.
Sorry I don't know about the tie rods or part #s. But I really think you may b missing the forrest 4 the trees. Heavy wheels and tires, lowered stance, and cheap or worn shocks are the bigger enemy to ride quality here.