02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

Just received my chrome torq thrust m's and I want to lower it. I can't decide between hotchkis, strano, or dms. Im leanin towards dms for the price and the stance. any help is greatly appreciated.

DO NOT TELL ME i need to buy shocks please,. . im saving for revalved bilsteins

James

soulless

iTrader: (3)

These links might help.

suspension tech
strano springs

Also, what are your goals for the car?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I think there is little choice. Let's review the important stuff.

One one of those springs is linear rate. Progressive springs change rate as they compress. Since shocks are spring dampers, it's not possible to damp all the possible rates all the time when they vary like that. And DMS and Hotchkis cannot tell you what the rate is at any given point in between extended and the last bit of travel.

One one of those springs has all the details laid out. Who makes them, the material, how the rates and heights were derived, etc.

And because of the ultimate rates used, and the fact we don't know anything about who makes the DMS springs, or the working rates beyond a guesstimate based on the published rates and looking at the windings.... well, they are the cheapest for a reason, and I'd certaily use Hotchkis over DMS, and have many times before we had our springs. Sometimes we still do if someone is looking to hedge the ride or not be that extra little bit as low as my springs. I sold a set of Hotchkis yesterday.

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

Strano springs lower the car pretty well around 1.25-1.5 inches and give you a nice ride (once matched up with the right shocks)

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Not that it couldn't happen I guess, but I never got one report of the test sets I sent out (all part of the same run fwiw) as being 1.5" lower. Most all were right @ 1.2 give or take a touch. However, it *could* happen as we all know the varying heights the cars sit @ stock. There's one car with my springs that dropped a lot, but was so high stock (I've never seen anything like it) that it just now looks stock even with the springs.

02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

hmm, got pics of the strano springs in action?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/644012-sneek-peak-new-setup.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/576054-before-after-pics-strano-springs.html

SS LS1

Just for more info to think about, I run DMS springs and have been very happy with them. No more nose diving under braking, flatter cornering, perfect stance and a nice ride. I run the DMS as they fit my needs not because I wanted the cheapest spring. BTW I do have the "Break the Bank" Koni Dual Adjustable shocks on all 4 corners so I could have opted for a more expensive spring if needed.

But only you can make the choice as to what fits your needs so keep doing your research (as you are) and give Sam a call as he can take the time to build you a great package.

Greg

DMS/Koni DAs in action.....

02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

wow, your wheels fit your wheel wells perfectly, . . my favorite ss next to projectcamaro's, . hands down!

what i want to know is which is better for launches? heard you can't have the best of both worlds, . so i decided i wanna launch like a ****

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Out of curiosity, and I truly would like to know, just what about them other than price and the look did you know? My point is when they tell you spring rates, it's a range not a hard number. And the issue is that it's not ideal for a spring to be varying rate because the shock doesn't communicate with the spring to know that you just got a 20% in rate because of that dip in the road.

I'm not saying they are ok for driving around. But ironically their rears actually get stiffer than mine do, which if rear traction is a concern I'd think would steer one away. What I am saying is using those springs is like buy a camshaft you don't know the specs on because the company said it's good. And while it might make more power than a stock one, how do you know you couldn't have done better?

BitViper

iTrader: (63)

So Sam.....Reading between YOUR lines above....Hopefully correctly

Would you say that "generally" ...Shocks have an "easier time" with linear rate springs because the valving of the shocks only has to deal with the single "rate" of change....

While if you were running progressive rate springs, its "harder" to match shock and spring because the spring rate is constantly changing, Which leads to some bit of compromise to the complete system

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Reading between the lines.... yes. But I thought I was pretty clear about it.

SS LS1

Thanks for the props on the car and noticing the wheel fittment, I worked hard designing a package of wheel sizes and offsets to fit the car just the way I wanted for function and appearance. I then had to find a company who was willing to build me truly custom offsets, iforged was willing where (believe it or not) Fikse, and HRE were not interested in changing their "standard" F-Body offsets.

As far as the best drag launching springs, I do not know. I got out of drag racing when I sold the tubbed '68 Pro Street Camaro I had.

But honestly (for drag racing) I would not go with DMS springs as they have some pretty high rear rates (which I wanted) that will limit rear end squatting under a hard launch (not important to me). Plus I would not run a drag car this low in the rear for maximum launch grip as I feel you should have more space before hitting the rear bump stops than these springs offer. I would look for only about a 3/4" - 1" drop and something with lower spring rates for your application.

Like you said you can't have the best of both worlds just like shocks. I love my Koni DAs on the street but for drag racing I would go with QA1 adjustables, but they are not as good as the Konis on the street. I know, decisions, decisions......................




(*Sigh* It seems like Sam is possibly picking a fight here but I'll try to answer some questions even though I was just trying to give the thread started an opinion on a setup he was asking about.)

One of the reasons is I was looking for a higher rear spring rate than the ProKit (nice front, garbage rear springs IMO based on experience) to not sag and support rear audio gear and plenty of luggage for 2 (on say a week long HotRod Power Tour trip) and not be riding on the rear bump stops all the way. I also wanted a lower spring rate than the LG G2 springs so I wouldn't rattle my teeth on every bump.

Well, unfortunately your springs were not available for consideration 4 years ago so frankly they were not an option But ironically I may be considering them for my wife's "01 SS.

Rear traction has not been a problem with my larger rear tires but still I wanted a fairly high spring rate to keep a low car off the bumpstops, which is where something like the Sportlines fail as you know.

I understand the difficulty of trying to dampen variable rate springs over a large compression distance as you are going to have to make a compromise, but the rear springs (for example) do not travel 4-5" on my car but more like 2". Thus with limited travel (by choice, on my car) the spring rate does not change the full extreme they advertise (95-160) over say only 2". Therefore the shock has a much narrower range it must dampen in real life and is something the Koni's handle quite well, on my car.

Admittenly I do not know (at ride height and through say 2" of travel) exactly what spring rate my shocks are required to dampen, but the exact number doesn't really matter. For example, even if I knew they were say exactly a 120 lbs/in linear rate spring I still would not know the exact shocks setting I would have to dial in.

What I'm saying is adjustable shocks like the Konis do not have marks on the adjustments (as you know) which say turn here for 90 lbs/in springs and turn here for 150 lbs/in springs, etc. they just say + and - so you adjust to what the application needs. That is done by trial and error no matter what spring is used as every car is different since they have various weight wheels, tires, rotors, calipers, a-arms, control arms, bumps stop duromerters, etc. This can be a time consuming process that must be done no matter which springs are used, however the average consumer might achieve the proper shocks settings quicker with a linear set of springs. But this is a process that I enjoy.

If there were some linear rate springs availble back then (w/o out going to an overkill coil-over set-up) and if they would have fit my needs I would most likely have chosen a linear rate spring. But there were none, at least now the consumer has an option in your springs. But I am very happy wih my setup and will not be changing it any time soon even though I could afford to do so.

Oh and springs are not like a camshaft since you can easily order a custom ground camshaft for the same cost as an off-the-shelf one where you do not have this choice with a non coil-over spring set unfortunately. BTW I would never run an unknown spec cam, but rather one ground to fit my specific needs which would not be correct for the next guy.

Greg

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

No, no... not trying to pick a fight. But I'm pretty tired of folks on the 'net saying "this is best" or "this was right for me" type things without a hint of supporting data. I'm not taking anyone's word for it, just as I don't expect anyone to just take my word for something (which is why I explain myself).

You did that, thank you. I'm sorry if it took me trying to pick a fight, but details matter and you didn't have any.

SS LS1

Understandable and I can respect your reasoning above. That is why I opened my first post with.........

........... rather than "this is best" or "these are the cheapest so get 'em" as I wouldn't expect anyone to purchase based on my recommendations. But rather just take my personal experiences along with others, weed through the piles of internet BS, and then go make a rational buying decision. Unfortunately many buyers (as you know) are just too impatient to do any real research or learn about a new topic to them (suspension in this case). So for them (as I mentioned above) I recommend that they should call yourself and work up a complimenting package to fit their needs.

Cheers Sam and seriously I will give your springs a good look when the Wife is ready to lower her SS and possibly a set for my Father's HOTROD Magazine Camaro to get the sagging Pro Kit off his car.

Greg