I know where you are going with this, but its not the best analogy. The box would still flex around the "cage" because all the mounting points are still in one plane....the bottom. The top and sides would still flex and bend if you put your hands on either side of the box and twisted. In a car. the mounting points are scattered throughout the chassis and in different planes, but technically, there are still no mounting points on the top or sides. Those areas will fail and crumple towards the cage, but that is energy absorption that is built in. That is a whole other topic, but basically, you want crumple zones to absorb and dissipate energy around the passenger compartment and away from the passengers.

I see the text.

 

These cars come from the factory doing most things fairly well. If you want to road race, or drag race, then you can find parts that will make it do that part better. But you usually end up losing part of the other function. It's VERY difficult to make a car do everything better.

That said, if you want to drag race, SFCs will keep the body from twisting. Make enough power & the rear fenders WILL buckle without them. A roll bar makes it even stiffer. And they both make the car handle better too. Mine feels like a damn go cart now. (no flex) The only dif I felt from my STB (shock tower brace) was not flopping around on the interstate because of tire ruts.

LCA (lower control arms) & a Torque Arm aslo help the car launch better. But again, some LCAs are better for drag (fixed) & others road (hyme joints). If you lower the car (i.e. Eibach pro springs) then you will need LCAs & brackets and an adj Panhard Bar to regain proper alingment. And new shocks - the stockers don't work well down low.

The shock / spring setup is the hard part. You want hard suspension in the rear & soft in the front for drag racing. That doesn't work well in hard corners. I'm working on a combo now for my car that will do everything (better than stock, but not optimized for one thing), but until I prove that it works, I'm not going to suggest anything.

 

Metal flexes, all metal. SFC's don't stop anything, they just lessen flex. You want to run them, that's all fine and dandy, but they are not suspension mods but chassis mods. I do not run them (not allowed, but not sure I would anyway) on my car and I have customers with 400k miles on cars without them, one of whom is Wahusker's nephew's girlfriend.

The problem with the cars is NOT chassis flex. And for the guy who jacked up on one corner.... It's a 3400 pound car that you are lifting from one point and one point only. That doesn't exactly happen when the car is on the ground or driving around.

Are SFC's bad? No. Are they necessary? Hell no. Are they nearly the best first mod? No way.

 

Are you saying that chassis flex causes no ill effects with the suspension and handling of the car?

I did not lift a 3400lb car from one point and one point only. I lifted the drivers side of a 3400lb car so I could test the difference in flex between the subframes before and after the SFC install. It reduced flex between those points considerably.

For the 40 bucks it cost me to build and install them, I think they are well worth it...

 

One reason why I wish I didn't do SFC's was that it bumped me into SM class in autox

 

I'm in the same boat. My turbo kit already puts me into SM so I figured what the hell

 

*sigh*

What I'm saying is very, very, very simple. You all act like the car doesn't flex anymore. It does, just a bit less than it did, which wasn't a lot in comparison to many, many other cars. This car isn't a weak POS, it wasn't designed in the 70's, but in the '90's and designed knowing the floorpan would have a convertible option as well and that was designed in.

And chassis flex can help things like putting power down out of a corner from time to time as it absorbs torque.

You all act like the car is a cooked egg noodle, which is hilarious. I'll take shocks everytime before SFC's. The shock are a much bigger problem in terms of everything that's wrong with the car. The ride, the handling, even the impact harshness.

Again, your test was flawed. Did you expect to see no difference after adding SFC's when lifting a car in a way it's not meant to be lifted and in a way that has no bearing on how the car drives down the road?

 

Nooooo, I didn't act like the car was an egg noodle and I never said it didn't flex any more. I also didn't say that subframe connectors are the end all be all of handling mods. The cost of good shocks and a set of SFCs isn't even in the same ball park. But for similar money, if I only had the money for one thing, I would put a new sway bar up front first. Thankfully, I have the money to buy and tools to fabricate more than just one thing. As I said before, they add support to the stock chassis configuration and that support gives a more stable foundation for the suspension to do it's job.

My test is not flawed because I wanted to see the difference in longitudinal flex across between the subframes before and after the install. And if you don't believe the car is loaded in that direction, then you have always ran glass smooth tracks where any bumps you encounter equally affect both front wheels at the same time.

But you act like adding subframe connectors has absolutely no impact on how the suspension performs in any form or fashion. The suspension is mounted to the chassis and if the foundation flexes, everything else changes. Your relative alignment changes and your geometry changes. If they do absolutely nothing else, the reduction in those changes make the car more predictable and that is worth a few pounds and a few bucks.

The effects on handling with no other changes are minor but I believe they are enhanced with the upgrade of other suspension components. But the cost of an SFC install is also minor. And if you don't have class rules that prohibit them, they are a worth while mod. Other modifications to my car already put me in a class where subframe connectors are allowed.

I also agree with you that there is more bang to be realized from upgrading the suspension. I agree with you so much, my car has Koni 1139 and 1140s, rod ended LCAs and PHB, a 35mm front sway bar, a stock rear bar but modified for adjustable length arms, and I am also fabricating new upper control arms with rod ends. And that's the beginning.

But in rereading your post, I get the feeling we are saying the same thing from opposite sides.

 

I sell SFC's, I encourage folks to buy them--when it's time.

 

Then I think we are saying the same thing from opposite sides. I enjoy the conversation.

 

Ok, the best mod for cheap i think is............a panhard bar.

I got a adjustable lakewood bar and i LOVE IT. Stoped the rear end vibration i hade. now it rides smooth as glass. 90 bux...
Feels much more solid going around corners and bump. Best mod for the money.