LCA questions?
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9 Second Club NA
iTrader: (180)
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,943
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From: Houston, TX
LCA questions? How come sperical ends are so expensive? Whats the purpose of them? When they are listed, they have "race" included with the description. Are they a race only LCA? If not, are they really necessary for my use? (daily driver, little track time, dont want any binding, and want little noise if none. Chromoly would be the way to go as far as what material its constructed of right? It is stronger and lighter than the other type of metal used, right? As far as what ends are used on PHBs really dont matter that much because theres hardly a diffferce. But as far as LCAs go, thats where it matters. What kind of ends should I go with and should I get them adjustable? Thanks
Re: LCA questions? Good quality rod ends are relatively quiet....they also cost nearly $30 each (for a total of 6 including the PHB and both control arms). Six of them can run close to $180 (depending on what brand you buy and the quality level). This makes that type of LCA expensive. They should be lubed, cleaned and greased on occasion, which rarely happens to most street cars, so they say "race" (race cars are inspected more often and it may get done. The good news is that many good rod ends will go several years of street use with no problems (even if they are never cleaned or greased) and I owned one set that did just that (they looked good, didn't bind, worked great, and grease attracts dirt, so I left them alone...and since they were teflon lined....they didn't seem to care).
See these links for answers:
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...21&fpart=1
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...21&fpart=1
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...21&fpart=1
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...21&fpart=1
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...21&fpart=1
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...21&fpart=1
This would be much easier if we could keep it under one or two posts....(instead of 6 or more). Not that I mind helping you out....but we are starting to repeat questions.
Good luck!
See these links for answers:
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...21&fpart=1
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...21&fpart=1
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...21&fpart=1
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...21&fpart=1
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...21&fpart=1
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...21&fpart=1
This would be much easier if we could keep it under one or two posts....(instead of 6 or more). Not that I mind helping you out....but we are starting to repeat questions.
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About the PHB, should I get it single adjustable or with double adjustments?
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Either, both will do the job. Consult with your wallet and decide how much lighter it should be and order accordingly (not really a wrong answer on this one).
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How come they make them in two different ways? Whats the purpose of each of them?
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Like the control arms. If it has heim joints or rod ends on it, they have to mount somehow and they usually screw in. it is just a way to attach them (and it keeps the control arms and panhard rod using the same parts to assemble them....saving money. The new BMR adjustable with poly/poly bushings has a single adjustment in the center.)
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Does BMR or Hotchkis make a good one? Do they offer theirs in different ends?
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BMR has a heim/heim and poly/poly adjustable, hotchkis has a poly/poly that is not adjustable.
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Which ends should I go with on the PHB?
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It is not as critical (to prevent binding) as the control arms, poly works fine. Rod ends are more positive, but may border on overkill.
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You say that youre going to change over to the LG LCAs, why and what are you running now?
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I have BMR Heim/Heim control arms and panhard rod. I had some Herb Adams heim/heim lca's and they didn't make nearly the noise that my BMR lca's make (rattling and noise). The LG Motorsports seem to be much quieter, I thought I'd try them....in the name of science.
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So why are there adjustable ones?
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They the ends are installed by using threads, they need fastened to the body of the control arm somehow and that just happens to be the way they are made.
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So really...the polyurethane bushings are intended for drag racing only?
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No, they work ok for street use, they are not the optimal arrangement for high performance driving and turning corners, but they can reduce wheel hop. Most drag racers don't care how their car takes an exit ramp, so the difference is unnoticed.
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I would assume that because if they dont give, and theres really no movement besides in a straight line, then you wouldnt need them to give or flex, right?
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By "binding" the rear, they help keep the rear axle from "twisting" up under the body and help the car launch a little straighter.
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On the poly/rod ones, why did they make them in a combination?
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They did it in an effort to reduce the transmission of noise and vibration (and the polyurethane bushings are likely slightly less expensive to use than 2 rod ends...but probably not by much), and having a rod end on one side of the control arm will give enough rotational travel to keep the rear from binding.
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Which material is used on which side and why are they in that location? Meaning why did they choose that particular material for that particular side?
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The poly should go on the rear axle, as the axle moves vertically (only on one side, like hitting a pothole) the control arms must swing in a slight arc (not just vertically). This requires the rod ends to be on the body to allow the axle to rotate without binding.
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Can you explain what heim means?
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These are heim joints, also known as rod ends, spherical bearings, and "race" control arm ends.
Heim Joint An extremely rigid articulating joint, commonly known as a ""spherical rod-end,"" used in any precision linkage. Heim joints are often used in the suspension links of race cars because they locate wheels very precisely.
This definition is from http://www.cartrackers.com/auto_glossary/h/#heim-joint
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What does BMR offer theres in? Do they offer them in any combination or just one type?
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Heim/heim and Poly/Poly
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I really dont want anything to bind, so I guess the poly/poly would be out of the picture for me since its my daily driver and doesnt see too much of the track, right?
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I run heim/heim lower control arms and a matching panhard rod on my daily driver as do many other people on this board. The Heim/Heim style work as well (or better than) the poly type at the track, most people buy poly due to cost (and not being concerned about cornering ability).
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About the LCA relocation brackets...I see now what they do according to your explanation, but my question is, do you have to have anything special or different done to your car for them to be useful? What if your car is lowered, does it still make a difference?
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If you have wheelhop, they are helpful....but if you ever run an autocross or road course event on race compound tires, you will see increased "brake hop", it's like wheel hop, but during hard braking. Many people with lowered cars don't use them (my self included).
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Mine isnt lowered, but I thought about it just for look because I was told that it changes the geometry of the suspension resulting in loss of 1/4 mile times. Would the LCA relocation brackets make it worse or help it out?
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The LCA relocation brackets can improve 1/4 mile times in non lowered cars as well.
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do you have to have anything special or different done to your car for them to be useful? Are the LCA relocation brackets intended for cars that have been lowered or altered in any other way, or for just any f-body?
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No, you don't need anything special, but I would recommend aftermarked control arms. They will work for any f-body.
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If I was to lower my car, it would only be an inch, using the 1" Hotchkis peformance drop springs. Would that still cause me to lose time?
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This seems to depend on driver style, the amount of horsepower you have and the tires you are using. Many people say that lowering seems to slow them slightly in the 1/4 mile. This is mostly do to the fact that the car stays "flatter" during cornering and acceleration and not as much weight is transferred to the rear tires.
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Since they lower the position of the LCAs, are there any clearance issues?
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It is possible, but I doubt it would be much of a difference. The rear shock mounts on the axle hang moderately low as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About the PHB, should I get it single adjustable or with double adjustments?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Either, both will do the job. Consult with your wallet and decide how much lighter it should be and order accordingly (not really a wrong answer on this one).
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How come they make them in two different ways? Whats the purpose of each of them?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like the control arms. If it has heim joints or rod ends on it, they have to mount somehow and they usually screw in. it is just a way to attach them (and it keeps the control arms and panhard rod using the same parts to assemble them....saving money. The new BMR adjustable with poly/poly bushings has a single adjustment in the center.)
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does BMR or Hotchkis make a good one? Do they offer theirs in different ends?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BMR has a heim/heim and poly/poly adjustable, hotchkis has a poly/poly that is not adjustable.
Quote:
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Which ends should I go with on the PHB?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not as critical (to prevent binding) as the control arms, poly works fine. Rod ends are more positive, but may border on overkill.
Quote:
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You say that youre going to change over to the LG LCAs, why and what are you running now?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have BMR Heim/Heim control arms and panhard rod. I had some Herb Adams heim/heim lca's and they didn't make nearly the noise that my BMR lca's make (rattling and noise). The LG Motorsports seem to be much quieter, I thought I'd try them....in the name of science.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are there adjustable ones?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They the ends are installed by using threads, they need fastened to the body of the control arm somehow and that just happens to be the way they are made.
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So really...the polyurethane bushings are intended for drag racing only?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, they work ok for street use, they are not the optimal arrangement for high performance driving and turning corners, but they can reduce wheel hop. Most drag racers don't care how their car takes an exit ramp, so the difference is unnoticed.
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would assume that because if they dont give, and theres really no movement besides in a straight line, then you wouldnt need them to give or flex, right?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By "binding" the rear, they help keep the rear axle from "twisting" up under the body and help the car launch a little straighter.
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the poly/rod ones, why did they make them in a combination?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They did it in an effort to reduce the transmission of noise and vibration (and the polyurethane bushings are likely slightly less expensive to use than 2 rod ends...but probably not by much), and having a rod end on one side of the control arm will give enough rotational travel to keep the rear from binding.
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which material is used on which side and why are they in that location? Meaning why did they choose that particular material for that particular side?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The poly should go on the rear axle, as the axle moves vertically (only on one side, like hitting a pothole) the control arms must swing in a slight arc (not just vertically). This requires the rod ends to be on the body to allow the axle to rotate without binding.
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you explain what heim means?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are heim joints, also known as rod ends, spherical bearings, and "race" control arm ends.
Heim Joint An extremely rigid articulating joint, commonly known as a ""spherical rod-end,"" used in any precision linkage. Heim joints are often used in the suspension links of race cars because they locate wheels very precisely.
This definition is from http://www.cartrackers.com/auto_glossary/h/#heim-joint
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What does BMR offer theres in? Do they offer them in any combination or just one type?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heim/heim and Poly/Poly
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really dont want anything to bind, so I guess the poly/poly would be out of the picture for me since its my daily driver and doesnt see too much of the track, right?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I run heim/heim lower control arms and a matching panhard rod on my daily driver as do many other people on this board. The Heim/Heim style work as well (or better than) the poly type at the track, most people buy poly due to cost (and not being concerned about cornering ability).
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About the LCA relocation brackets...I see now what they do according to your explanation, but my question is, do you have to have anything special or different done to your car for them to be useful? What if your car is lowered, does it still make a difference?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you have wheelhop, they are helpful....but if you ever run an autocross or road course event on race compound tires, you will see increased "brake hop", it's like wheel hop, but during hard braking. Many people with lowered cars don't use them (my self included).
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mine isnt lowered, but I thought about it just for look because I was told that it changes the geometry of the suspension resulting in loss of 1/4 mile times. Would the LCA relocation brackets make it worse or help it out?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The LCA relocation brackets can improve 1/4 mile times in non lowered cars as well.
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
do you have to have anything special or different done to your car for them to be useful? Are the LCA relocation brackets intended for cars that have been lowered or altered in any other way, or for just any f-body?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you don't need anything special, but I would recommend aftermarked control arms. They will work for any f-body.
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I was to lower my car, it would only be an inch, using the 1" Hotchkis peformance drop springs. Would that still cause me to lose time?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This seems to depend on driver style, the amount of horsepower you have and the tires you are using. Many people say that lowering seems to slow them slightly in the 1/4 mile. This is mostly do to the fact that the car stays "flatter" during cornering and acceleration and not as much weight is transferred to the rear tires.
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since they lower the position of the LCAs, are there any clearance issues?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is possible, but I doubt it would be much of a difference. The rear shock mounts on the axle hang moderately low as well.
Good luck!
Re: LCA questions?
Are they a race only LCA?
If not, are they really necessary for my use? (daily driver, little track time, dont want any binding,
and want little noise if none
Chromoly would be the way to go as far as what material its constructed of right?
What kind of ends should I go with and should I get them adjustable?
Good luck!
Thread Starter
9 Second Club NA
iTrader: (180)
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,943
Likes: 1
From: Houston, TX
Re: LCA questions? If the adjustable PHBs are to align the rear end, what is the purpose of the adjustable LCAs? The PHB aligns it left to right if youre standing in the front or the rear of the car right? Thanks
Re: LCA questions?
If the adjustable PHBs are to align the rear end, what is the purpose of the adjustable LCAs? The PHB aligns it left to right if youre standing in the front or the rear of the car right? Thanks
Thread Starter
9 Second Club NA
iTrader: (180)
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,943
Likes: 1
From: Houston, TX
Re: LCA questions? To DOM: What do you mean by do one at a time with those? So really there is no need for adjustment on the LCAs because it doesnt affect it any? So how would you replace the bushings on non-adjustable ones? Where do they sell the replacment ends for the adjustable ones because I never knew thats what theyre for and Ive never seen them advertised. Thanks
Re: LCA questions? Replacement ends can be had from Jegs high performande, summit racing and many others.
Most of the poly bushed ones will need the part # from the manufacturer (usually for energy suspension bushings) for replacements, or you'll need to get them from the manufacturer of the control arm.
Most of the poly bushed ones will need the part # from the manufacturer (usually for energy suspension bushings) for replacements, or you'll need to get them from the manufacturer of the control arm.
Trending Topics
Re: LCA questions? "Make sure and get adjustable LCAs though to center the tire in the well."
Just pointing out they didn't make the LCA's adjustable just because. The above is from a different post.
Bottom line is they make them adjustable so you can compensate for any problems with the rear end geometry.
Just pointing out they didn't make the LCA's adjustable just because. The above is from a different post.
Bottom line is they make them adjustable so you can compensate for any problems with the rear end geometry.
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9 Second Club NA
iTrader: (180)
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,943
Likes: 1
From: Houston, TX
Re: LCA questions? I was going to get the chromoly adjustable PHB with the poly bushings and non-adjustable chromoly LCAs with poly/rubber bushings. But now that you pointed out the adjustable ones for lining up the rear end, I guess my best bet would be to get those adjustable too. Are the rod ends (sperical) necessary for the PHB or the LCAs? Thanks
Re: LCA questions? Necessary? Depends on what you're doing with the car.
OK, after 4 years of modding my 99' here's where I am, take it as you will.
Daily driver, autox and dragstrip.
After having a full rod end rear suspension, I can't imagine going back.
Ride quality and road noise is driver dependent. Just like big cams and loud exhausts, what some people can deal with, some can not.
With that being said, my 89' Camry with 250,000 miles on it is quieter ( 0 rattles, and it's a rustbucket ) and rides smoother on the highway than the T/A.
Yet when I'm ready to rock and roll, the T/A more than qualifies. At that point I'm not concerned with road noise or ride quality.
Get the rod ends. All around. And adjustable.
You wanted a race car right?
OK, after 4 years of modding my 99' here's where I am, take it as you will.
Daily driver, autox and dragstrip.
After having a full rod end rear suspension, I can't imagine going back.
Ride quality and road noise is driver dependent. Just like big cams and loud exhausts, what some people can deal with, some can not.
With that being said, my 89' Camry with 250,000 miles on it is quieter ( 0 rattles, and it's a rustbucket ) and rides smoother on the highway than the T/A.
Yet when I'm ready to rock and roll, the T/A more than qualifies. At that point I'm not concerned with road noise or ride quality.
Get the rod ends. All around. And adjustable.
You wanted a race car right?
Thread Starter
9 Second Club NA
iTrader: (180)
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,943
Likes: 1
From: Houston, TX
Re: LCA questions? Actually, the car is my daily driver and hardly sees any track time. Im not sure what AutoX is, so I can say that my car isnt for that. Now that you know what I want to do with the car, is your thoughts about what I should get the same? I really dont want noises and to ride rough, but if its hardly noticeable, then its really not that big of a deal. Its a cammed car, so I doubt that Ill hear noises anyways, but then again, it doesnt affect what I feel. When they list rod ends, they say for "race" use only. Again, I dont race it, its driven daily on the road, but when I do go to the track, I want it to handle good. Thanks