2002ScottOnyxSS

iTrader: (4)

I replaced the stock brake lines with Earls Stainless Steel lines.
I figured I would pull the calipers off the car to paint them. I also installed Earl Solo Bleeders.

The system was open for a few days.
I had the 3/8x1 bolt (install-university method) with the old crush washers on all 4 of the new ss lines. The car sat like that for a few days.

I finally got everything back together...ss lines, painted calipers, earls solo bleeders.
Last night I tried bleeding using the Helms TCS method (RR LF LR RF) 2 person method, and ran into a few problems. The solo bleeders needed to be cranked open a lot in order to get any decent flow...and even that was not steady. I abandoned them and returned to the stock bleeders.

This went better overall...The flow thru the hose of the Lisle bleeding kit looked fine, however, after starting the car, the pedal pushed straight to the floor and it felt very spungy (no brakes whatsoever)

I re-bled another 5 or so times..same results.
Should I just continue to bleed? MC never ran below 1/2.
Maybe between pulling all 4 of the lines and calipers, leaving it open for a few days, I introduced a lot of air into the system? No visible leaks....

Any other suggestions?


Thanks
Scott

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

It sounds like you have "lots" of air in the system. I have not tried to get that much air out of one of the abs systems on these cars. YOu may need to trigger the abs and rebleed, but you need to have enough brakes to move the car. I remember one person on the board that wound up having the dealer bleed it with the "tech 2" tool to cycle the abs. I know that there are a few people on the board that have managed to clear air out of one of these systems....maybe they'll toss a word in.

Viper

iTrader: (6)

I read you can bleed the brakes, then put the tires/wheels back on, go for a short drive in the driveway/street, over 6mph. Go right back and bleed again. This is supposed to help bleed the ABS portion.

2002ScottOnyxSS

iTrader: (4)

Viper - yeah, I read that ABS event trigger method a few times. I am not sure if I have enough braking capability to stop the car.

trackbird - I'll try bleeding a few more times, maybe purge enough out of the main system.

I read that unless you let the MC run dry or replace the ABS block, the ABScircuit should be ok...

Thanks for the input so far...anyone else??





and this was supposed to be a quick, enjoyable mod

CMNTMXR57

If the brake pedal feels spongy, repeat the bleeding procedure again. If the brake pedal still feels spongy after repeating the bleeding procedure, perform the following steps:

1) Inspect the brake system for external leaks.

2) Pressure bleed the hydraulic brake system in order to purge any air that may still be trapped in the system.

2002ScottOnyxSS

iTrader: (4)

I was looking at the pressure bleeding procedure in the Helms manual....any idea where I can purchase the diaphram type brake pressure bleeder and adapter?

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

http://www.apexcone.com/Bleeder/bleeder.html

CMNTMXR57

IN the Helms manual (I don't have one) for pressure bleeding ar ethey refering to vacuum bleeding or PSI (true pressure) bleeding?

If it's a vacuum, I bought one of those hand held pumps at a local auto parts store eons ago that works wonders. If it's a pressure (PSI) style, I wonder if Sears would have one. Otherwise try www.snapon.com or one of the other tool manufacturers. They usually have specialty automotive tools.

2002ScottOnyxSS

iTrader: (4)

In Helms, they have two methods outlined...manual (traditional 2 person) method and pressure method.

The pressure method involves a 'diaphram bleeder' and an adapter for the master cyl. You hook to a compressor (25-30 psi)and introduce pressurized fluid into the brake system. You then open each bleeder(one at a time) to force the air out.
I looked at Snap-on...they have a diaphram system for 500 bux, but that includes a compressor

I wonder where I can get the gm parts
Helms specifies J29532 for the diaphram bleeder and J35589 for the adapter. I am going to post a separate thread on this...


I am going to try bleeding the brakes manually (again) tomorrow..I am hoping to be able to drive it to safly initate the ABS event (6mph). I may get some pedal back with the system bedding in as well...wish me luck

Thanks for the feedback so far, guys

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

When flushing the system, the rule of thumb is to start at the farthest point and work your way to the closest. That would mean RR, LR, RF and LF. The rear run on an F-Car is a single line that splits just above the diff. So RR/LR really doesn't matter.

However, when chasing and air bubble you do just the opposite ... LF, RF, LR, RR

That home-made version of a pressure bleder that I referenced above works very well.

2002ScottOnyxSS

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Mitch...
Yeah, I am going to to build that home bleeder this weekend as my 'Plan B' (I was interested in the GM parts as a backup to that)

I'll try the opposite sequence as you prescribed.

Any idea why Helms specifies RR LF LR RF seq with TCS?
Just curious...

Thanks
Scott

2002ScottOnyxSS

iTrader: (4)

update
man, this has been the biggest pain in the @$$

I tried another manual 2 person bleed.
There still seemed to be some air bubbles in the rear circuits...fronts were ok. Pedal was spongy and went right to the floor, but I did have some braking capability

I took the car out for an ABS Event run...I had to get the car up to 15mph for the abs to fire...My Low Trac light came on, and the rears were on the verge of lockup (fronts behaved in non-abs mode)

Did a few of the abs runs, hoping to see some improvement.
Not really I bled all 4 brakes with the engine running...froth came out of the rears, some air bubbles out the fronts. I assume I haver tons of air in the abs block.

Multiple manual bleed sessions were tried after that.
The pattern remained: fronts seemed ok, still traces of air in the rears. Clean fluid is coming back out...over 64 oz have been consumed...


I tried building the Ace Hardware pressure bleeder - the help! mc cap did not fit my MC (or my buddy's 99SS, or my 99 blazer

I checked for leaks by spraying a soapy solution around the banjo fittings and line-to-pipe fittings...They all seemed fine

I will prob make an appointment at a dealer this week.
Pissed off because I cant get this to work....

Sorry this is so long......

Any advice is appreciated.
Scott

MaDMaX350

Scott, did you find a resolution to this? I am having very similar symptoms with my brake system minus the ABS events [ABS never worked]