little help with suspension mods
06-21-2003, 04:19 PM
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little help with suspension mods Hey yall, this is my first post on this board. I already searched around and couldn't come up with a good answer to this question so please don't flame the rookie. Anyway, I have a 99 z28 M6 that NEEDS suspension work. The area I live in has a lot of terrian and I want to eat up the twisties like I'm in a Formula 1 car. I have been looking at various packages such as the SLP level one, and G2 stage three setup. Any hidden gems that I have missed? What is the best bang for the buck? Thanks.
06-21-2003, 10:49 PM
#2
Re: little help with suspension mods https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...86&fpart=1
That one may help out. I guess I'll send you to read that post and then post additional questions. Several of us will be glad to help. I autocross (and play on the occasional back road) with the setup in my sig.
It depends on your budget. LG Motorsports has a reputation and a following, you don't get either of those without building great components and packages. The SLP stuff is quite good, not really "race" parts (essentially, serious autocrossers rarely use theit stuff....but it is a good compromise for a daily driver, reasonable cost, decent performance and it is as quiet as stock or very nearly so). BMR Fabrications makes pretty good stuff, not the most pleasing to look at, but it is relatively inexpensive and functional. There are lots of other manufacturers, but tnose are some of the major players in the F-body suspension field. Check out the other post and feel free to ask questions....that's why were here.
Good luck!
Kevin
That one may help out. I guess I'll send you to read that post and then post additional questions. Several of us will be glad to help. I autocross (and play on the occasional back road) with the setup in my sig.
It depends on your budget. LG Motorsports has a reputation and a following, you don't get either of those without building great components and packages. The SLP stuff is quite good, not really "race" parts (essentially, serious autocrossers rarely use theit stuff....but it is a good compromise for a daily driver, reasonable cost, decent performance and it is as quiet as stock or very nearly so). BMR Fabrications makes pretty good stuff, not the most pleasing to look at, but it is relatively inexpensive and functional. There are lots of other manufacturers, but tnose are some of the major players in the F-body suspension field. Check out the other post and feel free to ask questions....that's why were here.
Good luck!
Kevin
06-22-2003, 12:41 AM
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Re: little help with suspension mods Sure, use me as the test subject. 
Actually, like Kevin said, I wouldnt go with a 'package' unless you are just looking for a better than stock suspension. Heres what you need to know in a nutshell:
1. Panhard rod: Keeps the rear end centered under the car much better than the stock one: more stability at higher speeds and during turns: I used a cheap BMR non adjustable.
2. Sway bars: Keeps the body from rolling from side to side (and a bit from front to back) when coupled with poly bushings: tries to keep the car from 'rolling over' in hard turns: I used SLP's 1LE front and rear, there are many others, but these have a great price.
3. LCAs: Plant the rear to the road during acceleration: helps keep the wheels from jumping around and losing traction: Im using the G2 race LCAs, but be warned, I am getting some noise from mine, worth it though.
4. SFCs: connects the main underbody points of the unibody to strengthen the entire chassis: helps with everything, there are no bad side effects to doing SFCs. Will stop most squeaks, rattles, and body flex: I use SLPs weld-ins, and they are magnificent. There is alot of boxed metal in them, I can only imagine their strength.
5. STB: connects the two struts together at their tops (over the motor): adds more strength to the nose to prevent flexing: Again, I used the cheap, yet very strong BMR. Dont pay over 99 bucks for one, there just a piece of pipe
.
6. Torque arm: plants the rear even farther into the road: reduces wheel hop and increases traction even farther: I havent gotten one yet.
Be advised though: most everything here uses poly bushings, and is much more rigid than stock, meaning that more road noise WILL be transfered to the car, so if you do it all in one whack, get ready to adjust for a day or two to the new sounds.
Let us know!
Actually, like Kevin said, I wouldnt go with a 'package' unless you are just looking for a better than stock suspension. Heres what you need to know in a nutshell:
1. Panhard rod: Keeps the rear end centered under the car much better than the stock one: more stability at higher speeds and during turns: I used a cheap BMR non adjustable.
2. Sway bars: Keeps the body from rolling from side to side (and a bit from front to back) when coupled with poly bushings: tries to keep the car from 'rolling over' in hard turns: I used SLP's 1LE front and rear, there are many others, but these have a great price.
3. LCAs: Plant the rear to the road during acceleration: helps keep the wheels from jumping around and losing traction: Im using the G2 race LCAs, but be warned, I am getting some noise from mine, worth it though.
4. SFCs: connects the main underbody points of the unibody to strengthen the entire chassis: helps with everything, there are no bad side effects to doing SFCs. Will stop most squeaks, rattles, and body flex: I use SLPs weld-ins, and they are magnificent. There is alot of boxed metal in them, I can only imagine their strength.
5. STB: connects the two struts together at their tops (over the motor): adds more strength to the nose to prevent flexing: Again, I used the cheap, yet very strong BMR. Dont pay over 99 bucks for one, there just a piece of pipe
.6. Torque arm: plants the rear even farther into the road: reduces wheel hop and increases traction even farther: I havent gotten one yet.
Be advised though: most everything here uses poly bushings, and is much more rigid than stock, meaning that more road noise WILL be transfered to the car, so if you do it all in one whack, get ready to adjust for a day or two to the new sounds.
Let us know!
06-22-2003, 01:07 AM
#5
Re: little help with suspension mods If I can add my $.02 ....
1. Panhard rod: Keeps the rear end centered under the car much better than the stock one: more stability at higher speeds and during turns: I used a cheap BMR non adjustable.
I bought BMR for this and was required to drill out the rear mounting brackets to get the bolt to fit. This would lock you into BMR forever.
2. Sway bars: Keeps the body from rolling from side to side (and a bit from front to back) when coupled with poly bushings: tries to keep the car from 'rolling over' in hard turns: I used SLP's 1LE front and rear, there are many others, but these have a great price.
Explain how they help acceleration air and braking dive? They sways rotate in bushings as the suspension flexes. They only provide roll supporet laterally.
Having said that, springs support the car's weight, shocks slow the weight transfer down and sways allow you to tune where and how much weight is transferred.
Don't ask a sway bar to do the spring's work.
3. LCAs: Plant the rear to the road during acceleration: helps keep the wheels from jumping around and losing traction: Im using the G2 race LCAs, but be warned, I am getting some noise from mine, worth it though.
LCAs LOCATE the rear end and are the primary attachment point. How they react to changes in suspension geometry is what you look for.
Poly or Rubber ended LCAs will bind in their mount, when the body rolls over during cornering. This binding increases rear effective spring rate and will cause the car to begin to push (understeer).
Rod end LCAs allow for free movement, without bind, allowing all the other suspension components to do their job.
4. SFCs: connects the main underbody points of the unibody to strengthen the entire chassis: helps with everything, there are no bad side effects to doing SFCs. Will stop most squeaks, rattles, and body flex: I use SLPs weld-ins, and they are magnificent. There is alot of boxed metal in them, I can only imagine their strength.
Very true. There are trade-offs, though.
Tubular are strong and easily hidden, tucked up into the under body.
Boxed are stronger still, but hang down a bit. If ground clearance is key, then boxed should not be on your list.
I have boxed on mine, but because I can use them to jack up the whole side of the car ... NASCAR style ...
5. STB: connects the two struts together at their tops (over the motor): adds more strength to the nose to prevent flexing: Again, I used the cheap, yet very strong BMR. Dont pay over 99 bucks for one, there just a piece of pipe.
It mounts to the upper shock mounts on either side of the engine bay.
I've run laps at Motorsport Ranch with and without an STB and felt no difference in feel ... turn in, mid corner or track out. Lap time bore that out as well.
It looks cool, though.
6. Torque arm: plants the rear even farther into the road: reduces wheel hop and increases traction even farther: I havent gotten one yet.
This is where you shouldn't skimp.
A TA that is keeps the pinion angle dead nuts on while both braking and accelerating is paramount. You don't want to hop an axle here.
A TA that is bind free, allowing 3D movement is very important as well.
Having one that uses all the stock mounting points is a HUGE plus. Most aftermarket TAs require welding and fabrication to install.
Find one that runs in the same space made for the stock unit is a must, especially if you run aftermarket exhaust.
There is only one choice ... LGM G2
I cobbled my suspension together piece mill, based upon price mostly, buying a piece here and there from a vendor here and there.
If I had just called LGs and asked for a package deal, the overall costs would have been very comparable.
1. Panhard rod: Keeps the rear end centered under the car much better than the stock one: more stability at higher speeds and during turns: I used a cheap BMR non adjustable.
2. Sway bars: Keeps the body from rolling from side to side (and a bit from front to back) when coupled with poly bushings: tries to keep the car from 'rolling over' in hard turns: I used SLP's 1LE front and rear, there are many others, but these have a great price.
Having said that, springs support the car's weight, shocks slow the weight transfer down and sways allow you to tune where and how much weight is transferred.
Don't ask a sway bar to do the spring's work.
3. LCAs: Plant the rear to the road during acceleration: helps keep the wheels from jumping around and losing traction: Im using the G2 race LCAs, but be warned, I am getting some noise from mine, worth it though.
Poly or Rubber ended LCAs will bind in their mount, when the body rolls over during cornering. This binding increases rear effective spring rate and will cause the car to begin to push (understeer).
Rod end LCAs allow for free movement, without bind, allowing all the other suspension components to do their job.
4. SFCs: connects the main underbody points of the unibody to strengthen the entire chassis: helps with everything, there are no bad side effects to doing SFCs. Will stop most squeaks, rattles, and body flex: I use SLPs weld-ins, and they are magnificent. There is alot of boxed metal in them, I can only imagine their strength.
Tubular are strong and easily hidden, tucked up into the under body.
Boxed are stronger still, but hang down a bit. If ground clearance is key, then boxed should not be on your list.
I have boxed on mine, but because I can use them to jack up the whole side of the car ... NASCAR style ...
5. STB: connects the two struts together at their tops (over the motor): adds more strength to the nose to prevent flexing: Again, I used the cheap, yet very strong BMR. Dont pay over 99 bucks for one, there just a piece of pipe
.I've run laps at Motorsport Ranch with and without an STB and felt no difference in feel ... turn in, mid corner or track out. Lap time bore that out as well.
It looks cool, though.
6. Torque arm: plants the rear even farther into the road: reduces wheel hop and increases traction even farther: I havent gotten one yet.
A TA that is keeps the pinion angle dead nuts on while both braking and accelerating is paramount. You don't want to hop an axle here.
A TA that is bind free, allowing 3D movement is very important as well.
Having one that uses all the stock mounting points is a HUGE plus. Most aftermarket TAs require welding and fabrication to install.
Find one that runs in the same space made for the stock unit is a must, especially if you run aftermarket exhaust.
There is only one choice ... LGM G2
I cobbled my suspension together piece mill, based upon price mostly, buying a piece here and there from a vendor here and there.
If I had just called LGs and asked for a package deal, the overall costs would have been very comparable.
06-22-2003, 01:55 AM
#6
Re: little help with suspension mods Damn, Mitch got here first. I agree with pretty much everything except the Strut tower brace.
Mitch and I agree to disagree on this one.
When I installed mine, I found the car to be much more solid over railroad crossings etc and there was far less cowl shake over bumps. The other improvement was less steering wheel shake over bumps (where the steering wheel feels like it is "ringing" like a bell, just generally shaking over bumps). My other thought on it is that it completes a "circle" around the engine which logically should (and in my opinion, seems to) add some strength to fight off fatigue of the welds in the front chassis structure. Also, it dosen't weigh very much, is pretty much out of the way and is relatively "cheap" as mods go. But, that is just my thoughts on the subject of strut tower braces.....
Mitch and I agree to disagree on this one.
When I installed mine, I found the car to be much more solid over railroad crossings etc and there was far less cowl shake over bumps. The other improvement was less steering wheel shake over bumps (where the steering wheel feels like it is "ringing" like a bell, just generally shaking over bumps). My other thought on it is that it completes a "circle" around the engine which logically should (and in my opinion, seems to) add some strength to fight off fatigue of the welds in the front chassis structure. Also, it dosen't weigh very much, is pretty much out of the way and is relatively "cheap" as mods go. But, that is just my thoughts on the subject of strut tower braces.....
06-22-2003, 02:00 AM
#7
Re: little help with suspension mods I installed my STB at 1,500 miles on a new car with stock suspension (not after 100,000 miles of abuse). I agree that the difference may not show up in lap times, I had to use the highly uncalibrated chassis flex "butt-o-meter", but the reduction in cowl shake was quite noticeable in my car (maybe they just forgot to weld the front together????....lol).
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06-22-2003, 02:09 AM
#8
Re: little help with suspension mods since others have posted a bunch of info, there is no need for me to restate it......I will however toss in my feelings (what I have done)
1) ROD ENDS ON EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!! I would not have my car any other way. The can't bind, they are positive location, and they increase the reaction time of the car (no lag waiting for the rubber/poly to load up). The noise is nothing and don't see how it can bother people (unless you are an old man or a girl and can't stand noise....but then your probubly in the wrong car).
2) the STB did really stiffen up the front end of my car. I live on a hill (45%+ incline driveway) and to go up I have to hit it at an angle (one wheel...then the other). With the STB off I can see and feel the body bend. With it on, the outside tire stays IN THE AIR till it hits the hill.
3) I really didn't find much increase with a torque arm (it was the last suspention mod I did). The biggest increase was from installing a poly mount instead of the factory rubber (go figure....).
I like LGs stuff the most by far (have their coilovers and lower a-arms) but its really exspensive
. With that in mind, a lot of my stuff in BMR (upper a-arms, LCAs, and K-member...panhard and TQ arm are a different company). While they are not quite the same level of quality, they are a good product for the price. The one thing that is still GM is the 1LE sway bars. They are dirt cheap and they really do get the job done (thought they do need poly mounts and end links....not the factory rubber or durrometer...).
1) ROD ENDS ON EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!! I would not have my car any other way. The can't bind, they are positive location, and they increase the reaction time of the car (no lag waiting for the rubber/poly to load up). The noise is nothing and don't see how it can bother people (unless you are an old man or a girl and can't stand noise....but then your probubly in the wrong car).
2) the STB did really stiffen up the front end of my car. I live on a hill (45%+ incline driveway) and to go up I have to hit it at an angle (one wheel...then the other). With the STB off I can see and feel the body bend. With it on, the outside tire stays IN THE AIR till it hits the hill.
3) I really didn't find much increase with a torque arm (it was the last suspention mod I did). The biggest increase was from installing a poly mount instead of the factory rubber (go figure....).
I like LGs stuff the most by far (have their coilovers and lower a-arms) but its really exspensive
. With that in mind, a lot of my stuff in BMR (upper a-arms, LCAs, and K-member...panhard and TQ arm are a different company). While they are not quite the same level of quality, they are a good product for the price. The one thing that is still GM is the 1LE sway bars. They are dirt cheap and they really do get the job done (thought they do need poly mounts and end links....not the factory rubber or durrometer...).
06-22-2003, 12:05 PM
#9
Re: little help with suspension mods
Damn, Mitch got here first.
Shock Tower Brace ...
We do agree that it is cheap and relatively lightweight. And it certainly doesn't hinder anything, so ...
While you are at it, put in a 12 disc CD jukebox. It's about the same price and weight and doesn't hinder anything ...
Couldn't help it ....
06-22-2003, 08:48 PM
#10
Re: little help with suspension mods
While you are at it, put in a 12 disc CD jukebox. It's about the same price and weight and doesn't hinder anything ...
