JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Does this make sense to everyone?

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

I updated post 1 with some mounting ideas for the rear bag.

Hugger

iTrader: (21)

Even though I have never attempted any of your "projects", I always enjoy reading your writeups. The rear air shocks are intriguing to me since I drag race a lot. How do air shocks "rates" compare to standard coil spring "rates"? What is your next project going to be? Excellent information as always!

Josh

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Well, an air "shock" is something else entirely. I assume you mean the air springs rates compared to the steel springs rates. From what I gather the air spring has a softer rate right at ride height and then gets progressively stiffer as it is compressed. The softer rate at ride height, lets say the first inch of compression gives you the smooth ride, but as it compresses more the rate gets stiffer and helps keep the suspension from bottoming out. This is still an area I'm working on, but I did have the coil spring helper bags on my older Caprice and when I aired them up a little the back of the car rode smoother and had less sway which felt better as far as handling was concerned.

One of the big factors in the rate and as far as how soon the rates goes up is the air capacity of the bag. The bigger the bag, the smoother the ride. This also includes any air in the lines between the bag and the solenoid. If your using 1/2" lines then it will add a noticable amount of extra air that the bag can use.

Are you considering replacing both your rear springs with air bags or just adding some of those helper bags like a lot of drag racers do?

It can certainly help. If you air up only the passenger side rear it will put more of the vehicles weight on that tire to help launches. If you wanted to run a single helper bag, you could pick up a cheap compressor and run a single pressure gauge to the cab and hit a switch to add air. The compressors check valve will keep it aired up, then all you need is a single small solenoid to release the air pressure. So a simple toggle switch could control both. One way powers the pump and the other way activates the valve. It's a heck of a lot easier than having to find a air source to add air.

Or you could add 2 helper bags and have 2 check valves. One switch would add air pressure and then run 2 solenoids to release the air on the drivers side bag.

What exactly were you looking for?

jetlag

iTrader: (32)

I have some brand new parts if you are interested in them...

8 GC 350 Xtreme valves for $300 shipped
1 KP Components dual needle 200psi gauge for $20 shipped
2 Slam Specialties RE6 bags $135 shipped...

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Who makes those valves and what size are they?

dochall22

iTrader: (6)

Hey I got a question, i'm stupid when it comes to bags, and was wondering if they can handle a hard launch? Here's my dilema, I love the look of a lowered ride around town, but when it comes time to launch my car is eating my tires up on the outside b/c it squats so much, could an air bag system give me the lowered look on the street and still be able to hold up to a launch? just curious, thanks

mindreaper

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the great write-up, this is super interesting.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

You say when it comes time to launch your car it's eating your tires up on the outside b/c it squats so much? What does that mean? The middle of the tread is not contacting the road?

This car is running air bags and launches well. It's got a 406 small block, 600 horse and a 250 shot.


Does that help at all?

Just like with metal springs, you can change the rates, rides heights, etc... to help your car launch. I personally hate it when my car rocks front to back so I stiffened it up. No more nose dive under heavy braking for me.

jetlag

iTrader: (32)

GC makes them, and they are 1/2"

http://www.gcvalves.com/

dochall22

iTrader: (6)

the quarter panel is cutting into the tire when its under hard acceleration, it is too low and squats to much.

maxgee

iTrader: (5)

I with you man. I am interested in the airbag set up after watching 2 different epidsodes on Horsepower TV puting on a Nice LS1 Camaro and another episode showing it on a few different cars at an auto X event.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

If that's all that's wrong, some simple spring helpers should fix it. This is also common for people with the Pro-kit spring set. The rears are just too soft and too low. Look here for more details.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....7&postcount=81

I can't really say how having rear air springs is going to effect the launch as I just don't know. There are a lot of other factors involved as well. Springs rates on both front and rear as well as all the shocks are factors. Softening the front shocks low speed rebound will let the nose lift under acceleration as will a softer spring up front. The down side is it will dive a lot as well. An extreme example is drag shocks up front. They will elt the nose lift quickly, but not let it come down quickly. It's great for drag racing, but dangerous for street driving.

If you think your front end is OK and it's just the rear that's squating too much, I would try the helper springs to lift it and increase the spring rate. That right there will reduce the rear squating as well as reduce the rear leaning in corners.

What springs and shocks are you running? Maybe that can shed some light on your problem.

Based on my experience with air helper bags, the ones that fit inside the spring, running a pair of them with about 10-15 psi (I think) made my other car ride smoother, handle better, lifted the back a little and prevented the rear from squating too much. It was really great. I think those bags are like $70 or so and you can air them up from a gas station so they are not too expensive. They're a good choice.

My main reason for the much more expensive setup is for ride height adjustment on the fly while still handling well. The only other option is hydraulics and they suck huge electricity to operate making for a heavy and MORE expensive setup. So weight and money are why I went back to researching air systems.

dochall22

iTrader: (6)

Wow man thanks for the info. I'll look into the helpers for sure.
this is the car i bought
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...623&highlight=
not sure what springs he used, but I've only had the car for a few months and haven't had time or money to do much, but I'm going to start here soon just trying to get everything lined out.

Thanks for your help.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

It doesn't look like the cars sitting low in the back so forget about adding the air bag helpers. It will just jack it up more. Looking at all the mods the previous owner was probably big into drag racing. Look and see if the shocks are stock or if they have any adjuster ***** on them. Since the ride height looks fine, I'm guessing it must be due to the shock valving combined with soft rear springs. Some pictures of the front and rear springs would sure help. If you just add the spring spacers your rear ride height will increase and it may be too high. You can compensate by cutting 1/2 a coil off the top of the spring. I actually use a combo of cutting and adding spacers to get the ride height and spring rate I want. It works very well, but I know what springs I'm working with.

If you want you can pick up a pair of stock rear springs from a salvage yard for like $30 or less and see if they help. I almost forgot, if the thick rubber isolators are still installed, you can remove them to lower the rear by about 3/4", then when you add some aluminum spacers into the rear springs you should be back to where you started as far as height goes, but the springs will be stiffer. That might keep you from needing to cut the springs.

It's just hard to diagnose something when you don't know what parts are already on the car. So if you can get me some pics of the springs and shocks I can better tell you how to fix your particular situation.

dochall22

iTrader: (6)

I dont think the pic shows it after it was lowered. I didnt pay attention to that, those pics were before the springs I'm pretty sure. Let me see if I can find one that has the lowered look.

dochall22

iTrader: (6)

http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=DSCN1132.flv

watch this video and see if it looks lower to you when he gets to the passenger side. i'll have to take better pics to check and make sure, i'm sending him a message asking him what was done too, i'll get more info

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

OK, it does look lower. Adding the metal spacers for like 5 bucks should really help. Try that first. Just jack up the back of the car and slip 2 of them into eack spring. Just place them 180* apart and in the same coil. Make sure it won't rub anything once the car is let down. I think the metal spacers for front springs are just the right size for the stock rear springs. You may need to take some channel locks and squeeze 2 coils together in order to pop it in.

By doing this you will be deadening one full coil. On a stock spring, the rate would go from 110 to 130lb/inch. I run 150lb/in. so 130 is an improvement without making it ride rough. I don't know what springs your running, but this cheap fix should help a lot. I think the ride height will go up about 3/4" or so. That will also help.

Running 315's on a lowered car is always tricky. Are the tires rubbing evenly on both sides? If not, the PHR might need to be swapped for an adjustable unit so you can center the rear. Sometimes you need to roll the fender lips as well.

dochall22

iTrader: (6)

I'm trying to avoid rolling the lips as much as possible, it doesnt have the adjustable PH so I think that might be next in line also.

If I take the wheel off and snap a pic would you be able to tell what is what? I dont know the difference.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Does one side rub or both? All the adjustable PHR will do is allow you to center the axle. At that point it may not rub either side or it may rub BOTH sides, but less severely.

Increasing the spring rate and ride height with the spacers I mentioned should solve your problem. Adding 3 spacers per spring (2 right above and below one another and the 3rd on the opposite side of the spring) will increase the rate and ride height a little more if you think you need it.

A picture of the shocks can probably tell me what brand they are. Rear springs are a lot harder to tell. I guess you already know their not stock. A picture will tell me whether it's a progressive spring or a linear unit. If you have a progressive spring you will get different results depending on where you place the spacers in the spring. So I could tell you the best part of the spring to get the results you want.